American IT companies can not find workers

Quote from newguy05:

comp sci / programming used to be hot, not anymore. it's been completely destroyed by outsourcing. what self respecting lazy american would want to compete with 14hr day oversea indians making min wage or immigrants in the US who are willing to take much lower pay and work twice as hard. India is pumping out programmers like we handout bailouts.

Not to mention the embarrassment of reporting to a manager who speaks broken english and smells like curry. since a lot of indians are mid management now.

it's a self inflicted destruction of talent that started a decade ago.

Law and corporate accounting is the way to go nowdays, unless you want to sit through 10 years of school for a md.

My entire ny team has around 50 people, there are maybe 6 white guys and 4 of them are russian/eastern european. Comp sci and IT is dead for the natives in this country.

Law? Are you nuts? 6 figure debt and no job. Sounds like a winning combo to me! :confused:
 
My sister is a lawyer and she graduated a few years ago. Many in her class didn't get a job. She doesn't make a ton yet. But the big difference with a lawyer is that the top level pay is very high. Law school is actually a pretty good value. In my opinion, it requires a lot less work/time then medical school and has a very high top-end pay.

As I tried to point out, when any profession pays a huge amount more then others then what tends to happen is an over supply of workers comes on the market. So, you can't just look at what pays a lot and expect to make that.

Sells is probably the easiest job to get into that has the potential to pay large figures at top level. I like jobs that can't be outsourced. Technology has even hit the legal field though. A lot of that work is being outsourced and computer technology has, also, reduced the number of lawyers needed.

So, technology is affecting all fields. Doctors probably less so but some people are flying to India to have some operations done. The problem right now is that the corporations have managed to profit form this asymmetrical development more then the people have.

As for what I'd recommend, tough to say. Chemistry looked like a good technology alternative. But, much of that work has went to China. In general, I like a good solid base pay with a high/unlimited top ceiling. Trading offers that. Accounting is outsourced but seems to be pretty stable.

Becoming an investment adviser is a though, that's basically another sales job and you have rich clients by default which is a win-win situation. I can imagine a large contraction in all banking sector jobs though.

I like small business right now and service oriented sector. One reason I like services is that they can't be outsourced. You can't outsource certain services. I expect services to become a larger sector of the economy. However, it is rather hard for investors to monetize on this trend and if it develops in a big way then the stock market and other global business could be in for a world of hurt.

I'm not enthusiastic about the social media craze. I'm bearish on cell phones too. I'm neutral to bullish on tablets. I'm bullish on mass transportation. I'm relatively bullish on small service oriented business. I'm bearish on all banking related.
 
Quote from Lucias:

My sister is a lawyer and she graduated a few years ago. Many in her class didn't get a job. She doesn't make a ton yet. But the big difference with a lawyer is that the top level pay is very high. Law school is actually a pretty good value. In my opinion, it requires a lot less work/time then medical school and has a very high top-end pay.

As I tried to point out, when any profession pays a huge amount more then others then what tends to happen is an over supply of workers comes on the market. So, you can't just look at what pays a lot and expect to make that.

Sells is probably the easiest job to get into that has the potential to pay large figures at top level. I like jobs that can't be outsourced. Technology has even hit the legal field though. A lot of that work is being outsourced and computer technology has, also, reduced the number of lawyers needed.

So, technology is affecting all fields. Doctors probably less so but some people are flying to India to have some operations done. The problem right now is that the corporations have managed to profit form this asymmetrical development more then the people have.

As for what I'd recommend, tough to say. Chemistry looked like a good technology alternative. But, much of that work has went to China. In general, I like a good solid base pay with a high/unlimited top ceiling. Trading offers that. Accounting is outsourced but seems to be pretty stable.

Becoming an investment adviser is a though, that's basically another sales job and you have rich clients by default which is a win-win situation. I can imagine a large contraction in all banking sector jobs though.

I like small business right now and service oriented sector. One reason I like services is that they can't be outsourced. You can't outsource certain services. I expect services to become a larger sector of the economy. However, it is rather hard for investors to monetize on this trend and if it develops in a big way then the stock market and other global business could be in for a world of hurt.

I'm not enthusiastic about the social media craze. I'm bearish on cell phones too. I'm neutral to bullish on tablets. I'm bullish on mass transportation. I'm relatively bullish on small service oriented business. I'm bearish on all banking related.

Here's a good article about a lawyer who is now stripping to feed herself:
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2011/09/13/lawyer-turns-to-stripping-to-pay-bills/

Meanwhile we have the auto workers negotiating a new contract for higher wages when the average wage in that field is currently $56/hour. They say they sacrificed during the recession, so should share in the profits now that the auto makers are in the black again. And they wonder why factories are being shuttered across the country.

As for sales, I have over 25 years of sales experience, and have been laid off three times in ten years. My last job ended when I did 300% to goal one month, then my goal was raised at the same time product sales slowed for the entire industry, and I was shown the door a month later. The problem with most sales jobs today is that there is typically no base pay, or it's draw against commission. Also, many companies are capping commissions now, so once you do say 120% to goal you're done for that month.

Service jobs offer some stability, but today an entry-level worker is competing with a seasoned veteran who was displaced in the last round of layoffs. Companies are aware of this, hence the requirement for extensive experience. HVAC techs used to make $20/hour to start with no experience, today that same job pays $14/hour and requires five to ten years experience.

The only "safe bet" seems to be the medical field, as you can't completely outsource patient care that requires human contact. But again you're dealing with a supply/demand situation as everyone heard healthcare was the way to go and got a degree in nursing or medical assisting. Now those jobs are starting at $25-30k/year, when they used to pay twice that.

It seems the reality is that Americans need to either get used to lower wages and worsening working conditions, or find a way to create their own source of income.
 
the barrier to creating a business is much lower because of the internet.
the ability to ramp up a business is much lower because of the internet.

as to the lawyer who became a stripper she is happy because she was able to fulfill her fantasy.

there is always opportunity.
People who spend their life on the Internet can now spend all of eternity there -- if they fork over $50 a year. An entrepreneur is offering virtual tombs in a cyber-cemetery, and has already raised $2 million from investors for the macabre startup.Jacques Mechelany, who heads I-Postmortem, is...
 
Quote from Lucias:


I like small business right now and service oriented sector. One reason I like services is that they can't be outsourced. You can't outsource certain services. I expect services to become a larger sector of the economy.
Interesting stories about the service sector. Bottomline: if you pick up an up-trend, you are going to be prosperous.

1) A family moved into the neighborhood 3 years ago and bot one of the better houses. Didn't think much of this until I drove by their driveway one day and saw a 2 year old Aston Martin DB9 convertible sitting there. (Value: $170k) Suddenly, my first thought: WHAT DOES THIS GUY DO FOR A LIVING ? I finally got my answer one day when a truck was in his driveway: Owns a Landscaping business.

2) A girl I knew from my undergrad days goes onto dental school and becomes a orthodontist. I never thought she was really that bright.
Sets-up her own practice 5 years later.....and now 15 years later the business is worth millions !

Unfortunately, those in IT and other technology have been facing a DOWN TREND. Although tech success stories are out there, they are the exception rather than the rule.
 
Quote from Businessman:

IT work is shit, soul destroying, stuck behind a screen working under pressure on a project that has a 90% chance of being binned within six months or a year.
And you get replaced by Indians at the whim of management who expect you to train them up before they fire you.
It pays well if you can get into finance or secure a long contract.. but it is not a good lifestyle really.
I wouldn't advise anyone starting out to go into the IT industry.

Could not have said it better myself.

Typical IT project: Managed by a failed programmer, and built with third world precision.

Sales skills trump technical skills, any day of the week.
 
Quote from syswizard:

The indian consulting companies were very smart to take talent "out of the equation"....and bid on the basis of price.
Companies don't have "talent" on their radar anymore.
That explains the crappy software out there.....including MSFT's as well as the buggy websites I run into everyday.

Exception: Goldman and others pay top, top dollar for their talented HFT programmers.....way into 6 figures. Natch, these guys make them dozens of millions of dollars.

For everyone else, programmers are simply an expense.

No. Goldman and others do not pay top dollar for IT. If you're not on the revenue side of the business, you're a cost, and costs must be crushed to zero. In addition, every moronic tech grad wants to work for an investment bank these days. Massive nerd supply. All undercutting each other. Great example of collective stupidity.

Certain small HFT shops on the other hand ... that's where the better developers have gone. Not to web 2.0. That's for graphic designer programmer wannabes.

HFT cannot outsource and be profitable. Bad code is losses. Fast code is money.
 
Quote from syswizard:

Interesting stories about the service sector. Bottomline: if you pick up an up-trend, you are going to be prosperous.

1) A family moved into the neighborhood 3 years ago and bot one of the better houses. Didn't think much of this until I drove by their driveway one day and saw a 2 year old Aston Martin DB9 convertible sitting there. (Value: $170k) Suddenly, my first thought: WHAT DOES THIS GUY DO FOR A LIVING ? I finally got my answer one day when a truck was in his driveway: Owns a Landscaping business.

2) A girl I knew from my undergrad days goes onto dental school and becomes a orthodontist. I never thought she was really that bright.
Sets-up her own practice 5 years later.....and now 15 years later the business is worth millions !

Unfortunately, those in IT and other technology have been facing a DOWN TREND. Although tech success stories are out there, they are the exception rather than the rule.

How do you know that the company wasn't just working on his yard, unless it was parked there at night, which could mean anything. But if true, what it means is simple: if you want to get ahead, you've got to be in control, which means owning your own business.

To the person who said law, that has been in the dumps for thirty some years. Now it's gotten to the point that even if you graduate from top schools, eg Virginia, NYU, you'll have trouble landing a position if you don't do well. Yes, if you do get a job, it pays well. But it's an up or out profession like consulting, but is contracting very rapidly. Most law students either don't get jobs or their jobs pay equal or less than what they would make if they didn't go to law school.
 
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