America To "Lose" In A Trade War?

[Nine_Ender]

I thought it something to do with mortgages and lax standards as China had a need to place 1.5 trillion dollars garnered in part by pegging to the dollar and erecting their trade barriers in their home market.

wall street found a way for a place for their money in crazy second mortgages thereby making big profits in the short run.

then when the obvious happened the fed switched out China's trillions into govt backed securities.

Overall, my observation is your government, special interest groups, and media have Americans in crisis mode all the time since 9/11. Canadians are more laid back about this and know whatever Trump will do we'll adapt and move forward. My life isn't going to change by any of this. Some might. What I'm thinking is enough Americans will lose part of their livelihood if protectionism takes hold, and you'll hear from them soon enough. Just like we're hearing from you about your medical premiums and deductibles now. You'd cry if you knew what I pay for me and my family, and none of us have had treatment meaningfully delayed in our lifetime.

When I was younger, a huge chunk of my pay as a single guy went to taxes. This was because our federal debt was massive and getting bigger and interest rates were massive. If you are not careful, this is where the US is headed. Trump's tax cuts may look absurd a few years down the road if your federal bills are uncontrollable and the tax base shrinks ( due to aging and the quality of jobs ). You guys are kind of drifting towards that and betting on an economic expansion from huge spending. We'll see what happens. Might be alright, might not be. I doubt that cutting off international trade is part of the solution.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

No, you are wrong on this. Every expert on this topic says NAFTA ending would be bad for Canada but worse for the US.

Oh, there is plenty of room to still have NAFTA but to renegotiate as needed. Don't start going binary on me like Usual Tard.

Canada will end out okay. It is a colony of the United States so we will look out for it as usual- but will require adjustments from time to time.

 

[jem]

This is a perfect example. I used to believe lefties were just lying.

But, I now understand some lefties just conform their reality to what they believe. I no longer think you all are consciously lying all the time.

So lets examine your statement....
Every trade reality the last 100 years?
the largest trade realities the last 50 years I can recall are...

1. China
2. Asian Tigers like Korea
3. OPEC (also a market distortion)
4. Japan
5. the fall of the Iron curtain

3 of those 5 realities are the massive growth of economies with via trade protectionism.

So I wonder do you not see those realities?

Every trade reality the last 100 years suggests widespread trade protectionism doesn't work.
Canada believes in trade and brokered a big deal with Europe last year and signed the TPP yesterday. If the US refuses to trade fairly with Canada, some portion of the current US trade will be shifted to those other regions. This will of course cost money short term as any shift does, and some US/Canada trade will remain regardless of the rules and the geography of the situation for both countries.

In terms of usual norms, Canada's economy has performed well since 2008 compared to other economies on the planet without the huge shocks to the system that some had including the US. Our overall numbers took a hit when Oil plunged but that is a regional problem. Almost nobody works in Oil in Toronto. The province of Alberta has been slow to adapt after being the richest province years ago.

I'm no expert in trade but neither is Trump nor most on this site. I have lived long enough not to sweat all this stuff and deal with whatever hand I'm dealt.

 

[Nine_Ender]

Oh, there is plenty of room to still have NAFTA but to renegotiate as needed. Don't start going binary on me like Usual Tard.

Canada will end out okay. It is a colony of the United States so we will look out for it as usual- but will require adjustments from time to time.

Canada has never been a colony of the US; we have far closer ties to Britain. And let's be real here, I'm a far more educated, intelligent person then you are. Like many trolls on the internet, you overrate your abilities.

 

[Nine_Ender]

This is a perfect example. I used to believe lefties were just lying.

But, I now understand some lefties just conform their reality to what they believe. I no longer think you all are consciously lying all the time.

So lets examine your statement....
Every trade reality the last 100 years?
going backwards the largest trade realities the last 50 years I can recall are...

1. China
2. Asian Tigers like Korea
3. OPEC
4. Japan
5. the fall of the Iron curtain

3 of those 5 realities are the massive growth of economies with via trade protectionism.

So I wonder do you not see those realities?

I have no idea what a "lefty" is and why you've decided I am one. I don't lie as a strategy; Trump does. It appears to me that you cannot discuss anything with anyone without trying to categorize people. In reality, I completely reject your premise about the world and the "lefty" insurgence. That's a long term American concept/fear that just never gains traction in Canada.

Look, I don't need to persuade you about anything, if you want to believe in trade protectionism go for it. If you want to believe I'm some "lefty" in Canada, so what. I personally have no idea what the concept means to you ( it seems almost religious ) and it really has no bearing on my approach to life.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

Canada has never been a colony of the US; we have far closer ties to Britain. And let's be real here, I'm a far more educated, intelligent person then you are. Like many trolls on the internet, you overrate your abilities.

No. On a daily basis and as your largest trading partner, you have closer ties to the U.S. Canada likes to pretend to have closer ties to Britain because Canadians spend 90% of their time trying to figure out how they are different from Americans so feigning loyalty to an old lady wearing a funny hat makes you feel more European for five minutes. Then its back to being part of American culture. Being quasi-British is not special anyway. We had that chance but preferred freedom and prosperity. We made out okay too. And Canada has made out okay being a satellite nation of the U.S. You are welcome.

Also, as a Fake Canadian, you are insensitive to the fact that Quebec is the second largest - by pop.- province in Canada. And the Quebecois are not as anxious as you to say that their greater ties are to Britain. That may be the view from Ottawa or American cities like Toronto.

As far as you alleging that you are a stable genius like Trump does too, well, we will let the viewers decide.

 

[jem]

wow... that was a silly evasion.

I am not here to persuade you.
Trade protectionism has worked for multiple countries. I showed you the examples.

I want to know why people think and say trade protectionism does not work when its so obvious it has.

I have no idea what a "lefty" is and why you've decided I am one. I don't lie as a strategy; Trump does. It appears to me that you cannot discuss anything with anyone without trying to categorize people. In reality, I completely reject your premise about the world and the "lefty" insurgence. That's a long term American concept/fear that just never gains traction in Canada.

Look, I don't need to persuade you about anything, if you want to believe in trade protectionism go for it. If you want to believe I'm some "lefty" in Canada, so what. I personally have no idea what the concept means to you ( it seems almost religious ) and it really has no bearing on my approach to life.

 

[Nine_Ender]

wow... that was a silly evasion.

I am not here to persuade you.
Trade protectionism has worked for multiple countries. I showed you the examples.

I want to know why people think and say trade protectionism does not work when its so obvious it has.

A silly evasion would be leading off with your "lefty" bs. I have no idea what you think that means, nor do I care. I don't lean left politically at all.

Latest news I read is that the US steel industry employs far less people then US businesses that use the steel, and that a 25% tariff ( if it sticks ) is estimated to mean slightly more Americans will lose their jobs in those industries then the total employees in the US steel industry. And the cost of the tariffs will be passed on directly to you the US consumer. They tried these tariffs in 2002 and they failed so badly that they revoked them in 2003.

Very few people on this planet agree with you on trade protectionism. That is a clue that maybe what you think is "obvious" isn't. But it's really not a worry for me. There is a lot of US policy that hasn't worked out well the last 15-20 years. Your medical premiums are just one example of a result directly from choices Americans made. Every time you blame Obama for it you are losing sight of what really led to the costs, including your own role due to your belief system. So pay for it.

 

[jem]

1. you posted random bunch of non sequiturs there.

2. Besides the fact that China, the Asian Tigers and Japan are proof trade protectionism works. And. beside the fact the US practiced it until world war II...

The arguments for free trade don't apply in a world where the other countries are practicing trade protectionism and destroying us with it.

3. Its like you and all the other free traders are insisting that we compete clean in in body building contests which allow steroids.
Sure it would be better for everyone if everyone competed clean but people don't and the people who do... lose.

A silly evasion would be leading off with your "lefty" bs. I have no idea what you think that means, nor do I care. I don't lean left politically at all.

Latest news I read is that the US steel industry employs far less people then US businesses that use the steel, and that a 25% tariff ( if it sticks ) is estimated to mean slightly more Americans will lose their jobs in those industries then the total employees in the US steel industry. And the cost of the tariffs will be passed on directly to you the US consumer. They tried these tariffs in 2002 and they failed so badly that they revoked them in 2003.

Very few people on this planet agree with you on trade protectionism. That is a clue that maybe what you think is "obvious" isn't. But it's really not a worry for me. There is a lot of US policy that hasn't worked out well the last 15-20 years. Your medical premiums are just one example of a result directly from choices Americans made. Every time you blame Obama for it you are losing sight of what really led to the costs, including your own role due to your belief system. So pay for it.

 

[Nine_Ender]

you posted random bunch of non sequiturs there.

No. Something seems off with you.