You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
America Must Go it Alone
- Thread starter chasinfla
- Start date
Bryan Roberts
Guest
No, nothing so sweeping. I'm saying the article nailed the reality of America's role in world affairs....and her citizens need to understand our responsibility. True leadership is a lonely road. Doing the right thing means encountering intense resistance. We can't please the world and do the right thing at the same time.
Living for the approval of the neighbors is the essense of mediocrity and a prescription for slavery. If there is one thing America cannot be, it's mediocre. Our form of government doesn't allow for it. We either lead or we die.
Living for the approval of the neighbors is the essense of mediocrity and a prescription for slavery. If there is one thing America cannot be, it's mediocre. Our form of government doesn't allow for it. We either lead or we die.
no, my friend. your remarks are those of one who watches too many movies. and too much 'news.' take a vacation. bring with you a copy of the constitution, the declaration of independence, and a few good biographies on the founders. then post your comments.
after that, ask the university you went to for a refund because they lied to you.
after that, ask the university you went to for a refund because they lied to you.
Speculator1929
Guest
I agree with your entire premise about doing what is RIGHT and not worrying about what others think. What is right about attacking Iraq? Why not just defend our borders? Is there some big business oil interest involved?
Don't get me wrong, I am all for taking the guy out, but I like to have a good reason first.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for taking the guy out, but I like to have a good reason first.
I hate to disappoint you, but I can't tell you wether we should or should not attack Iraq. I'm not in possession of enough information to make that decision. I'm sorry for my ignorance. I'll defer to the Commander in Chief on that one.
I was mainly calling attention to the nature of America's role of leadership -- not Iraq in particular.
Having said that, it seems that the regime in Iraq is responsible for a great deal of destruction home and abroad.
I was mainly calling attention to the nature of America's role of leadership -- not Iraq in particular.
Having said that, it seems that the regime in Iraq is responsible for a great deal of destruction home and abroad.
Good point. Leadership is what we too often miss here at home. (e.g. #42). How would you define leadership and character? Is it something you can learn? Is it possible to act in your own self interest and still be a leader? What is "right"? Are we (Good ol USA) "right" when we differ in opinion from other cultures? As long as human rights are preserved -- mainly to what Mr. Jefferson wrote in the Declaration -- do we have any moral rights to impose our views on others?
We do have a moral <i>obligation</i> to do what is right and wise and just (as does every individual). Doing such is guaranteed to offend a) those who oppose good directly due to their own interest in doing wrong and b) those who oppose good indirectly by articulating the emasculating argument that says, "what right do you have to force your morals on me?"
A man (and a nation) has the responsibility to to what is moral. And, owing to the nature of things, sparks will fly. Hence the concept of 'Just War.'
The Declaration of Independence offers about as good a distillation of these matters as they bear on (earthly) government as was ever made.
some thoughts that come to mind are...
"right" is what is good and true and just, "wrong" is what is evil.
That which supports liberty (not licentiousness) is right. That which supports slavery (not legitimate moral boundaries) is evil.
That which commends people to the proper informing of their own consciences, in order to make wise, righteous and intelligent decisions is good. That which seeks to deprive people of that responsibility is evil.
Man was created with a conscience in order to tell the difference. However, the conscience is being systematically misinformed and numbed by what we are discussing on the 1984 thread.
Some people don't know how to hear their consciences. It's something that requires regular practice. It is a 'still small voice.'
I believe that conscience is nearly extinct (if it were possible).
A man (and a nation) has the responsibility to to what is moral. And, owing to the nature of things, sparks will fly. Hence the concept of 'Just War.'
The Declaration of Independence offers about as good a distillation of these matters as they bear on (earthly) government as was ever made.
some thoughts that come to mind are...
"right" is what is good and true and just, "wrong" is what is evil.
That which supports liberty (not licentiousness) is right. That which supports slavery (not legitimate moral boundaries) is evil.
That which commends people to the proper informing of their own consciences, in order to make wise, righteous and intelligent decisions is good. That which seeks to deprive people of that responsibility is evil.
Man was created with a conscience in order to tell the difference. However, the conscience is being systematically misinformed and numbed by what we are discussing on the 1984 thread.
Some people don't know how to hear their consciences. It's something that requires regular practice. It is a 'still small voice.'
I believe that conscience is nearly extinct (if it were possible).
Originally posted by chasinfla
I'm sorry for my ignorance. I'll defer to the Commander in Chief on that one.
Oh, I see, that explains a lot.
As I don't feel any need to rewrite what others have written better, I'll just copy and paste what Madison and Josh_B wrote here:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6752&perpage=6&pagenumber=9
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Josh_B
We make some strange friends. Whoever serves the special interest groups at the time and we go for it. Who sold anthrax to Sadam to keep Iran at bay? And during the Russian invation of Afganistan Bin Laden and his group were freedom fighters, we were financing them to the tune of 1 bill a year.
How can we be so stupid here? Not sure for whom to vote next.
...People rarely win wars, governments rarely lose them. People get killed. Governments moult and regroup, hydra-headed. They first use flags to shrink-wrap peoples' minds and suffocate real thought, and then as ceremonial shrouds to cloak the mangled corpses of the willing dead...
...It is important for governments and politicians to understand that manipulating these huge, raging human feelings for their own narrow purposes may yield instant results, but eventually and inexorably, they have disastrous consequences. Igniting and exploiting religious sentiments for reasons of political expediency is the most dangerous legacy that governments or politicians can bequeath to any peopleâincluding their own...
...Carlyle Groupâdescribed by the Industry Standard as 'the world's largest private equity firm', with $12 billion under management. Carlyle invests in the defense sector and makes its money from military conflicts and weapons spending...
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Madison
"The only difference between a Republican and a Democrat is that one skins you from the neck down, and the other from the ankles up."
- Mark Twain (paraphrased)
Great post rs7. I agree completely - they are ALL liars, con-men, and thieves. It takes votes from BOTH sides of the aisle to pass horrendous laws like the "Patriot" Act, the DMCA, and the Federal Tax Code. There's more than enough blame to go around.
But, hey, it's the name of the game that the dumb masses have always yelled hooray when there was some military action to be had. Luckily, otherwise "leaders" would pretty much never have been able to fight their mostly - by no means all - but most, imbecilic wars.
Vietnam comes to mind.