America is Burning

[vanzandt]

In 1776 we fought a revolution over taxes. How do you think the founding Fathers would have reacted to widespread warfare against the populace, perpetrated by the police?

Have you ever walked in their shoes? They have a very tough job, they could lose their life in a blink of an eye. Every traffic stop now could end up being their last. They're human beings too.
There's thousands and thousands of great cops out there working daily, and there's hardly some kind of wholesale warfare against the populace going on. You need to re-channel that anger Johnny. Somehow. jmho

 

[PintoFire]

Someone else tried this false equivalency several times already. The founding fathers believed in law and order, not reckless chaos. They wouldn't have started killing police officers because of a few bad apples.

The vast majority of police officers do their job every day to keep people safer. Are there bad actors? Of course there are. There are bad teachers, bad engineers, bad politicians (more here than other professions), bad soldiers, bad waitresses, bad pilots, etc. People come in three flavors - Good, Bad and Boring.

Until you put robots or androids or something like that into police roles, the individual will determine whether they are good, bad or boring.

So your proposal is to start indiscriminately killing police officers because of the bad actors, is it? Just kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out.

Tell me. In this brilliant plan of yours, what happens in a world with no police?

Several of the founding fathers, including many rich land owners, owned slaves. Their morals are up for debate. Perhaps you should learn history before schooling someone on the morals and values of the founding fathers.

"49% owned slaves"
"Historians have accepted the following seven men as the key founding fathers: George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, John Jay, James Madison"
https://www.quora.com/How-many-of-Americas-founding-fathers-were-slave-owners
https://www.history.com/news/how-many-u-s-presidents-owned-slaves

 

[CaptainObvious]

Several of the founding fathers, including many rich land owners, owned slaves. Their morals are up for debate.

"49% owned slaves"
"Historians have accepted the following seven men as the key founding fathers: George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, John Jay, James Madison"
https://www.quora.com/How-many-of-Americas-founding-fathers-were-slave-owners
https://www.history.com/news/how-many-u-s-presidents-owned-slaves

All as irrelevant as those African tribes who sold their brothers into slavery. We might as well be debating the morality of the building of the pyramids or Neanderthals clubbing each other to death. All of it completely irrelevant in the here and now.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Several of the founding fathers, including many rich land owners, owned slaves. Their morals are up for debate. Perhaps you should learn history before schooling someone on morals and values.

"49% owned slaves"
"Historians have accepted the following seven men as the key founding fathers: George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, John Jay, James Madison"
https://www.quora.com/How-many-of-Americas-founding-fathers-were-slave-owners
https://www.history.com/news/how-many-u-s-presidents-owned-slaves

Oh? So when johnny rock quotes the founding fathers and says "they would have rioted over this too" it is OK, but when I use them as an example, it is invalid. I see. A little one sided, aren't we?

Your outrage is also bit out of the time period. Did you also in your research uncover how many other countries practiced slavery during that time? I'm not supporting slavery, but as a society, we evolve. What is morally questionable or outright wrong now wasn't then. People were married as early as 12 or 13 years old back then. Now we'd go "WTF".

You can't apply a cookie cutter view of the world now to then.

 

[johnnyrock]

Someone else tried this false equivalency several times already. The founding fathers believed in law and order, not reckless chaos. They wouldn't have started killing police officers because of a few bad apples.

The vast majority of police officers do their job every day to keep people safer. Are there bad actors? Of course there are. There are bad teachers, bad engineers, bad politicians (more here than other professions), bad soldiers, bad waitresses, bad pilots, etc. People come in three flavors - Good, Bad and Boring.

Until you put robots or androids or something like that into police roles, the individual will determine whether they are good, bad or boring.

So your proposal is to start indiscriminately killing police officers because of the bad actors, is it? Just kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out.

Tell me. In this brilliant plan of yours, what happens in a world with no police?

A few bad apples is propaganda. In every one of these videos (hundreds),so called good apples watch it happen. And just in case you don't know,if FOX news had been around they would have been on the side of the King and commerce. The founding Fathers would have been considered terrorists for dressing up like Indians during the Boston Tea Party.

If you believe in Law and Order - and the USA really believed that - the cops who abused citizens would be in jail. Instead, the police brass cover it up and the politicians try to bury it so as not to interfere with commerce.

Be honest dude. You don't believe in Law and Order. You believe in murder and mayhem with the blessing of the state.

 

[Tsing Tao]

All as irrelevant as those African tribes who sold their brothers into slavery. We might as well be debating the morality of the building of the pyramids or Neanderthals clubbing each other to death. All of it completely irrelevant in the here and now.

EXACTLY. It is positively stunning how logic seems to be lost on people today.

 

[Tsing Tao]

A few bad apples is propaganda. In every one of these videos (hundreds),so called good apples watch it happen. And just in case you don't know,if FOX news had been around they would have been on the side of the King and commerce. The founding Fathers would have been considered terrorists for dressing up like Indians during the Boston Tea Party.

If you believe in Law and Order - and the USA really believed that - the cops who abused citizens would be in jail. Instead, the police brass cover it up and the politicians try to bury it so as not to interfere with commerce.

Be honest dude. You don't believe in Law and Order. You believe in murder and mayhem with the blessing of the state.

Lets say I believe your "hundreds" of videos and lets say all of them are different officers. Lets say also i believe that each one of your examples has 3 other officers letting it happen and lets say that accounts to approximately 1500 to 2000 bad officers in your examples. Lets say there are at least that many that don't get recorded and double the number to 4000, taking the higher of the estimate.

There are 800,000 active duty police officers in service today. You are advocating killing police officers because less than half of a percent of the work force is "dirty". Instead of advocating a reform to the justice system, or better training, or video cameras on every officer, etc. Kill them. That is your solution.

You still haven't told me what your world without the police looks like.

 

[PintoFire]

All as irrelevant as those African tribes who sold their brothers into slavery. We might as well be debating the morality of the building of the pyramids or Neanderthals clubbing each other to death. All of it completely irrelevant in the here and now.

I'm not the one who brought up the founding fathers. According to this logic nothing they say or do should be relevant. Or is acceptable only to cherry pick things we like.

 

[Tsing Tao]

I'm not the one who brought up the founding fathers. According to this logic nothing they say or do should be relevant. Or is acceptable only to cherry pick things we like.

Neither am I. But if he gets to use it in his example, so do I.

 

[CaptainObvious]

I'm not the one who brought up the founding fathers. According to this logic nothing they say or do should be relevant. Or is acceptable only to cherry pick things we like.

I don't debate the morality of the past as there are no clean hands. It's just a meaningless debate used to drive political narratives.