America DEBT FREE in 2 years

[austinp]

<i>"Many agricultural concerns have produce rotting in the fields for lack of workers."</i>

That is due to a lack of skilled foreign workers, aka illegal aliens being pressured out of the fields, literally.

Field harvesting isn't a no-brainer task. There is a lot of nuances involved that require years of learning. Can't just take someone off a welfare role from the inner city, stick them in an orchard and expect the orchard to be picked clean & proper.

It's damn hard work, and there is learned skill involved. Produce will continue to rot until illegal aliens return to the task. That, or wages would have to at least triple (with benefits on top) to attract U.S. workers.

Add elevated wages to produce costs, pass that onto the consumer and reprice those 99c value meals at the fa(s)t-food restaurants.

 

[Cache Landing]

Ah, but don't worry. All this inflation is making our goods more attractive on the world market.

That's what I get a kick out of. People complain that our exports aren't great enough. Then the same people complain that the USD is plagued by inflation. Amazing

They complain that we get everything from China. Well of course we do. Their g-ment is specifically depreciating the value of their currency to keep their exports well priced. They aren't following the rules that allow for self adjustment of a capitalistic market. If they left things alone, wages would skyrocket in China and our trade deficit would be non-existent. Of course, then we couldn't buy as much stuff. Do we want more exports, or greater purchasing power?

 

[achilles28]

Quote from trefoil:

Forgive me, but allow me to cite some actual, fact-based <a href="http://www.pwc.com/uk/eng/ins-sol/publ/ukoutlook/pwc_ukeo-mar07.pdf" target=";">research.</a>
The cited is a study from Price Waterhouse about the UK economy that throws in, as a bonus, I suppose, worldwide rankings of cities by size of their GDP's.
Turn to page 23, and you see that, in 2005, NYC was number 2 behind Tokyo, and is projected, according to these folks, to still be number two.
LA is number three and will continue to rejoice in that position in 2020.
Chicago does drop, from fourth to fifth.
Philly, OTOH, goes from ninth to eighth, behind Mexico City, which goes from eighth to seventh.
These two cities combine to drop Osaka from seventh to ninth.
China? Well, Shanghai does manage to go from 32 to 16. Beijing, meantime, rises from 44 to 29. Hong Kong, though, stays stuck at 14.
Note that Hong Kong is the highest ranking Chinese city. It's behind Boston, and just barely manages to edge out Dallas/Fort Worth.
Sorry to introduce a bit of reality into this discussion. <b>rcanfiel</b> tried, so I figured I should give him a little backup.

So what?

 

[trefoil]

I think the point I was trying to make was obvious, in the context of this thread. Not going to help you if it isn't. I'm too old to be patient with the deliberately dense.

 

[achilles28]

Quote from rcanfiel:

Manufacturing is not that simple. More American jobs have been lost to automation (robotics, complex machinery) than due to "offshoring." Manufacturing is a deadend for all countries that think it will bring home the jobs bacon. And just take a look at all the wonderful things happening to China's rivers and ecology from all this "wealth."

Wrong.

Manufacturing serves as the epicenter of a nations innovative process.

Where goes manufacturing, so goes R&D and process refinement. This is true for most industries.

'Disposable' factory jobs serve as a bullwark against severe recessions or depressions.

Try recycling money domestically when every dollar spent goes overseas.

Chinas pollution has nothing to do with it.

 

[achilles28]

Quote from trefoil:

I think the point I was trying to make was obvious, in the context of this thread. Not going to help you if it isn't. I'm too old to be patient with the deliberately dense.

The point was untenable, at best. Not surprised you thought otherwise.

 

[DrEvil]

Quote from dalailama:

1: Pay of debt with debt free US notes issued by the government

2: Abolish fractional reserve lending.. as the debt is paid off raise the reserve requirements of banks to absorb the new money and maintain stability

3: Repeal the Federal Reserve Act and the National Banking Act

4: Withdraw from the IMF, BIS and World Bank

dalailama,

likely it will never happen. Best thing to do is do what the private banks behind the fed do:

don't pay income tax (if you are willing to go to court as has been seen with Ed Brown and others, they won't be able to find a law that says you have to or should pay it).

As the country goes into recession buy gold, property etc at discount, and sell out at other extreme of the cycle.

 

[trefoil]

Quote from achilles28:

The point was untenable, at best. Not surprised you thought otherwise.

Care to refute, with something more than one-sentence drive-bys?

 

[dalailama]

Quote from DrEvil:

dalailama,

likely it will never happen. Best thing to do is do what the private banks behind the fed do:

don't pay income tax (if you are willing to go to court as has been seen with Ed Brown and others, they won't be able to find a law that says you have to or should pay it).

As the country goes into recession buy gold, property etc at discount, and sell out at other extreme of the cycle.

Thats ok for students of history and the economy but humanity still remains enslaved

 

[drsteph]

Quote from DrEvil:

dalailama,

<snip>

don't pay income tax (if you are willing to go to court as has been seen with Ed Brown and others, they won't be able to find a law that says you have to or should pay it).

<snip>

You try it first. Let me know how it goes.

*shudders*

Now back to the main point here which is rapidly becoming - is manufacturing necessary to support an economy?

No question that technical innovation and manufacturing go hand in hand, although computer simulation does change that ball-game (provided your simulator is accurate). By decreasing the degree of manufacturing, you decrease the degree of innovation for non-electronic goods. Fine. Point conceded.

However, in the absence of total war, which requires vast mobilization of resources on the scale of WWII, what does it really matter? The new world order concepts still remain to some extent and the war is still a war of terrorism, rather than a war against a specific foreign power (with apologies to Iraq).

So, if we lose the GM plants, and the worker's knowledge to build MANY mediocre weapons as opposed to a FEW high-quality weapons, what does it matter for our national sovereignty (and hence our economy) so long as there is no Total war?

(Of course, if you have total war, you're caught with your pants down unless you are willing to use nukes)