Am I reading these commissions right?
- Thread starter nitro
- Start date
From what I understand it is direct access, so it is directed wherever you direct it, you can hit regionals or NYSE or an ECN (but then fees apply). So if you trade a lot of listed then these commissions are pretty good, also you can actually make money trading ecn by adding liquidity. I trade ETF and NYSE exclusively so for me this wouldn't be too bad, and I often add liquidity, but 500,000 share to get the 0.001/0.0015 commssion for me is a bit high for me. That said I am going to be shopping around for a broker for an LLC during the next year or so, so something like this might work.
PS. Please don't send me PMs tell me about ur firm etc.... I don't need you to tell me ur so great etc..., I'll find you if ur worth finding.
PS. Please don't send me PMs tell me about ur firm etc.... I don't need you to tell me ur so great etc..., I'll find you if ur worth finding.
Serge Pustelnik
Genesis Securities
Sorry to say, but you are wrong.
These are per share commissions.
If you hit in on ARCA you pay 0.003 + 0.003 (our max commissions) = 0.006
When you sell its 0.006 + SEC tax
so, round trip is (0.006 + 0.006 + SEC)/2 = 0.006 + SEC/2
on the best rate its 0.004 + SEC/2
However, for those who want an all-in rate - we create custom arrangements too
I don't get why the round-trip cost is .006- if buying in is .006 per share, and selling is .006 per share- shouldn't the round-trip cost be .012 per share? (plus fees...)
Another thing.. pardon my ignorance, but I still can't tell whether it is possible to make the incentive .002 on the exchanges on the buy side and on the sell side- can it only occur on one side? Or do exchange fees eat it up no matter what, anyway?
Thx. Looking for the cheapest place around for automated high-volume trading. (Well, reliability, data, etc. are also nice and important features, too
) Jumping in with two feet here...
Another thing.. pardon my ignorance, but I still can't tell whether it is possible to make the incentive .002 on the exchanges on the buy side and on the sell side- can it only occur on one side? Or do exchange fees eat it up no matter what, anyway?
Thx. Looking for the cheapest place around for automated high-volume trading. (Well, reliability, data, etc. are also nice and important features, too
) Jumping in with two feet here...And what's wrong with that? You have to compare apples to apples, guys. Since when do people think of equities in round-trip terms?
Genesis base commission rates are quite good by all information I've seen here, and according to the poll that 70+ people answered a couple months ago.
Re: wanting an all-in rate:
Picture the broker's side of the negotiation. You tell them how you trade, they take the base commission rate that they want to make, add what they expect to have to pay in fees (or get in rebates), and that's the rate they're willing to give you.
If you tell them you are a total liquidity provider, and they give you a rate of 0.001+SEC because they expect to get 0.002 credit, that's how they get to the 0.003 they want to make.
If, after negotiating this deal, you suddenly start taking liquidity exclusively, and they have to pay out 0.003 instead of getting 0.002 credit, how long do you think they will continue to let you rape them?
It's a no-win situation for the trader if the broker is paying attention. If you change your trading so it's not profitable enough for the broker, they will (justifiably) need to re-negotiate their rates. If you change styles so it's more profitable for the broker, you keep paying the same rate unless you negotiate a change.
And if you do find a broker that is willing to lose money on your trades, you'll have other problems when they can't pay their rent and their comm lines get disconnected
TANSTAAFL!
Genesis base commission rates are quite good by all information I've seen here, and according to the poll that 70+ people answered a couple months ago.
Re: wanting an all-in rate:
Picture the broker's side of the negotiation. You tell them how you trade, they take the base commission rate that they want to make, add what they expect to have to pay in fees (or get in rebates), and that's the rate they're willing to give you.
If you tell them you are a total liquidity provider, and they give you a rate of 0.001+SEC because they expect to get 0.002 credit, that's how they get to the 0.003 they want to make.
If, after negotiating this deal, you suddenly start taking liquidity exclusively, and they have to pay out 0.003 instead of getting 0.002 credit, how long do you think they will continue to let you rape them?
It's a no-win situation for the trader if the broker is paying attention. If you change your trading so it's not profitable enough for the broker, they will (justifiably) need to re-negotiate their rates. If you change styles so it's more profitable for the broker, you keep paying the same rate unless you negotiate a change.
And if you do find a broker that is willing to lose money on your trades, you'll have other problems when they can't pay their rent and their comm lines get disconnected
TANSTAAFL!
I'm surprised it has taken this long for a firm to begin undercutting the competition. WHile many would argue "they're not making enough," there is actually a lot of money to be made if you can attract traders with the lowest rates... At 500K traded per day you're looking at ~10M shares per month, and if your clearing rate is .001 then at .015 you are making 5K per month on that trader/group. If it's one or two guys trading remote, you have no costs and that is all profit (provided the trader remains positive equity). The days of this trader paying .004 and "giving" his clearing firm $30K per month in profits are over. Big volume traders/groups are few and far between these days, and there is no reason that margins should be that high.
I have several friends who are going to trade with these guys, and if their experiences are positive I would say I'd be interested in moving over too. The only concern with a firm offering rates this low is that there is very (VERY!) little room for error in terms of risk management. If you're offering .0025 to a guy who does 2M shares per month, then you're only making $3K on him, leaving very little profit cushion in the case of a blow-up. We will see, but this is a very interesting (and positive) development for all traders.
Ace.
I have several friends who are going to trade with these guys, and if their experiences are positive I would say I'd be interested in moving over too. The only concern with a firm offering rates this low is that there is very (VERY!) little room for error in terms of risk management. If you're offering .0025 to a guy who does 2M shares per month, then you're only making $3K on him, leaving very little profit cushion in the case of a blow-up. We will see, but this is a very interesting (and positive) development for all traders.
Ace.