Spoken like a true trader. I think you and I are on the same page here. When you wake up in the morning everyday, just say to yourself...."what can I do today to move me closer to my goals" and then set out to do it. Applied knowledge is power. Never lose sight of your goals and I think you'll do just fine. Good trading to you.
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Am I asking for too much?
- Thread starter Propeller Head
- Start date
Spoken like a true trader. I think you and I are on the same page here. When you wake up in the morning everyday, just say to yourself...."what can I do today to move me closer to my goals" and then set out to do it. Applied knowledge is power. Never lose sight of your goals and I think you'll do just fine. Good trading to you.
Quote from Propeller Head:
Any situation in which you are working on a commission basis is inherently entrepreneurial. This includes stockbrokers, real estate agents, insurance salesmen, hair stylists, strippers, taxi drivers, etc. Trading is very similar, in that you are paid based on your own efforts and your own results.
In none of these instances are you truly an employee, nor are you truly in business for yourself. You are more like a subcontractor. So how is trading so different?
It's different in that, unlike those jobs you mentioned above, as a prop trader, you have the potential to lose a lot of money.
Since this is the case, prop firms have to have some collateral to minimize their loss.
Would you let a stranger use over $1 million of your own money to trade, especially to someone who's a complete beginner with absolutely no track record? Not only that, if he blows that money, he just walks away....
In that type of scenario, how serious do you think that newbie trader is going to handle risks? Well, it's not his money, but more importantly, he doesn't have to worry about paying back anything.
Quote from sunggong:
It's different in that, unlike those jobs you mentioned above, as a prop trader, you have the potential to lose a lot of money.
Since this is the case, prop firms have to have some collateral to minimize their loss.
Would you let a stranger use over $1 million of your own money to trade, especially to someone who's a complete beginner with absolutely no track record? Not only that, if he blows that money, he just walks away....
In that type of scenario, how serious do you think that newbie trader is going to handle risks? Well, it's not his money, but more importantly, he doesn't have to worry about paying back anything.
Okay, I guess you're right. When was the last time you saw anyone on an internet forum admit to being wrong? Everyone here is right -- you either need an Ivy League degree (or semi-Ivy League, like Duke or NYU), or major connections (politics, law, business, organized crime, LOL), or the willingness to make a capital contribution. Otherwise be able to show a verified track record of trading success. I have none of the above, so I'm on my own. I'm getting the message.
Anyway, someone sent me a private message and told me to check out a few firms like Trillium and Chimera. According to the FAQ pages on their websites, these firms do not require a capital contribution. Does anyone know anything about them? Do their traders still have to pay commissions? Are their standards as high as FNYS?
Quote from Propeller Head:
Any situation in which you are working on a commission basis is inherently entrepreneurial. This includes stockbrokers, real estate agents, insurance salesmen, hair stylists, strippers, taxi drivers, etc. Trading is very similar, in that you are paid based on your own efforts and your own results.
In none of these instances are you truly an employee, nor are you truly in business for yourself. You are more like a subcontractor. So how is trading so different?
Well, let me try again. My wife was a broker at Merrill for 10 years. A good friend is at Morgan Stanley running the office. My friend is an employee of Morgan Stanley and my wife was an employee of Merrill. They received company benefits as many in corporate America do (did). Their respective income was variable based on performance. And most any corporate entity will invest in their employees for their development and for them to achieve success. SO I see "employee" versus true entrepreneur a bit differently. Also, Merrill, Morgan Stanley or any other company in any other field hires employees based on education and experience. Years ago, before I left to trade, I was hired by a Fortune 100 company based on certain skills I brought to the table. It sounds like that's the area you're deficient --- you want (need) training on how to successfully trade. No way I could have interviewed with any company and said "Hey, I want to be an engineer -- you guys train me and pay me at the same time". You seem to want to be able to explore trading and if you don't succeed you want to be able to walk away with no financial loss. I doubt you'll find such a deal. On the contrary, to have to save up trading capital, and then risk it --- knowing you could in fact lose it IMO develops a lot more character than if you're trading someone else's money and there's no consequence if you fail.
Quote from Propeller Head:
I know there are plenty of companies that are willing to risk some time and money on a newbie. That's what makes the economy work. Why does this dynamic apply everywhere except the world of prop trading?
Is this a rhetorical question? I think you have your answer here.
One question you didn't answer is this - why don't you do the obvious thing? Save a small amount of money, open an account, and start trading.
Quote from traderNik:
Is this a rhetorical question? I think you have your answer here.
One question you didn't answer is this - why don't you do the obvious thing? Save a small amount of money, open an account, and start trading.
Fuck it. That's what I'm going to do. All this doubt and worrying is getting me no where. I appreciate all the advice.
have you thought of trying to get a job with someplace like group one, optiver,drw, etc? some market making firms will pay salary while they train you
Quote from all_in_4545:
have you thought of trying to get a job with someplace like group one, optiver,drw, etc? some market making firms will pay salary while they train you
Yes, the thought has crossed my mind LOL. I applied to Group One, but I never heard back from them. Optiver doesn't seem to have an office in the NY-NJ-CT-PA area. I can try DRW, but I think they only take experienced floor guys to work with their team in Lower Manhattan. Unless someone here has information to the contrary. Thanks anyway.