Okay, I've been looking for a relatively "safe" way (basically inexpensive) to enter the prop firm world, and even started a thread about it here a few days ago. So far, I'm not really finding anything that I feel particularly comfortable with. Here's my question. Do any of you know of a reasonable and realistic ALTERNATIVE to prop firms? That is, another way of at least getting one's foot in the door in the industry for those with little (but more than no) experience? Basically, something at least somewhat more stable and less costly than trading with a prop firm. Any advice would obviously be appreciated. I feel a little lost right now. Thanks.
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Alternatives to Prop
- Thread starter TsTrades
- Start date
Quote from TsTrades:
Okay, I've been looking for a relatively "safe" way (basically inexpensive) to enter the prop firm world, and even started a thread about it here a few days ago. So far, I'm not really finding anything that I feel particularly comfortable with. Here's my question. Do any of you know of a reasonable and realistic ALTERNATIVE to prop firms? That is, another way of at least getting one's foot in the door in the industry for those with little (but more than no) experience? Basically, something at least somewhat more stable and less costly than trading with a prop firm. Any advice would obviously be appreciated. I feel a little lost right now. Thanks.
if you cannot afford a prop firm, then you have almost no chance to ever make it in trading. This is not something you can do with "$2000 and a dream."
So everyone who went on to become a successful trader started off rich?
It's not even really a matter of affording it vs. not liking the concept of essentially paying for "employment." Which I put in quotes because I know it's not really employment -- I'd be closer to a customer than an employee. So, that's really my question. How do I get started with a career in trading in a way in which I'm at least closer to an employee than a customer than I would be at a prop firm.
Please, people, if you don't have a real answer (as in what the subject line is requesting -- an alternative to prop firms), just don't answer. Thanks.
It's not even really a matter of affording it vs. not liking the concept of essentially paying for "employment." Which I put in quotes because I know it's not really employment -- I'd be closer to a customer than an employee. So, that's really my question. How do I get started with a career in trading in a way in which I'm at least closer to an employee than a customer than I would be at a prop firm.
Please, people, if you don't have a real answer (as in what the subject line is requesting -- an alternative to prop firms), just don't answer. Thanks.
There r firms that would accept u in for 5k deposit, its up to u to build ur track record and eventually get ur hands on capital management.
There r entry barriers in most industry, and trading isnt any different, or even high barriers.
The good thing about prop frims is that you get to prove ur skill with the leverage and all u have to do is invest a few thousand dollars of ur own money. Dont try to get rich making millions in a few years with ur lilo pathetic personal capital contribution. U will more likely taking too large of risks and ruin ur account in a few weeks, if no days. Building a track record is more important.
If u r proved to be talented, I think a lot of ppl will want to talk to u in managing their money with full loss absorption by the investors.
So since u have 2k, go flip some burgers and scalp another 3k for a chance to build a good track record. Of course u will need to work after market hour to make a living at the same time.
If u have a degree from a good college( top 100s at least) in the area of finance, math, or computer science, u can just go ahead applying for an entry level position on the street and forget about props.
There r entry barriers in most industry, and trading isnt any different, or even high barriers.
The good thing about prop frims is that you get to prove ur skill with the leverage and all u have to do is invest a few thousand dollars of ur own money. Dont try to get rich making millions in a few years with ur lilo pathetic personal capital contribution. U will more likely taking too large of risks and ruin ur account in a few weeks, if no days. Building a track record is more important.
If u r proved to be talented, I think a lot of ppl will want to talk to u in managing their money with full loss absorption by the investors.
So since u have 2k, go flip some burgers and scalp another 3k for a chance to build a good track record. Of course u will need to work after market hour to make a living at the same time.
If u have a degree from a good college( top 100s at least) in the area of finance, math, or computer science, u can just go ahead applying for an entry level position on the street and forget about props.
Quote from TsTrades:
So everyone who went on to become a successful trader started off rich?
No, but there is a huge correlation between trading capital and success. Struggling to afford a prop form is about as close as you can get to sounding alarms and flashing warning signs. You are near flat line before you are even starting.
Do you not grasp how few people make it?
How do I get started with a career in trading in a way in which I'm at least closer to an employee than a customer than I would be at a prop firm.
Stop expecting to become a physician just because you took a 4-week course in reflexology
Please, people, if you don't have a real answer , just don't answer.
Then maybe you should start off with a realistic question. What I said went into one ear and out the other. Undercapitalized trading is worse than an undercapitalized "start my own business."
So everyone who went on to become a successful trader started off rich?
No, but there is a huge correlation between trading capital and success. Struggling to afford a prop form is about as close as you can get to sounding alarms and flashing warning signs. You are near flat line before you are even starting.
Do you not grasp how few people make it?
How do I get started with a career in trading in a way in which I'm at least closer to an employee than a customer than I would be at a prop firm.
Stop expecting to become a physician just because you took a 4-week course in reflexology
Please, people, if you don't have a real answer , just don't answer.
Then maybe you should start off with a realistic question. What I said went into one ear and out the other. Undercapitalized trading is worse than an undercapitalized "start my own business."
Okay, so it's unrealistic to assume that there are ANY other avenues to pursue when trying to break into the trading field than prop firms? That is, prop firms have an ironclad monopoly on traders starting off their careers? It's not that what you say is going in one ear and out the other -- it's that I don't buy what you're saying. Sorry.
Again, I'm looking for real answers to this (I think perfectly legitimate) question. And I thank those who have given me one. And TraderZones, I'm going to ignore any more posts from you in this thread. I'm not going to get into one of these "posting battles" which I see so often on ET and which almost made me hesitant to post here in the first place.
Again, I'm looking for real answers to this (I think perfectly legitimate) question. And I thank those who have given me one. And TraderZones, I'm going to ignore any more posts from you in this thread. I'm not going to get into one of these "posting battles" which I see so often on ET and which almost made me hesitant to post here in the first place.
Bottom line is that if you're a beginning trader without a good education or a connection it is impossible to make a living right off the bat. It's essential to either have savings or another source of income b/c it will be atleast a year until you start making a living. A stress the word LIVING over a paycheck b/c anything you'll be taking home will more than likely be less than you need for your expenses, unless you are young and living with your parents..... which I would recommend b/c it takes alot of stress away from the beginning and trading under great financial distress makes it almost impossible to trade well.
If you can not get a position at one of the legit prop shops like a first ny, schoenfeld, etc..... Then unfortunately the only option left if you wish to prop trade is to put up the 5k and learn on the job. There are far less firms backing traders currently and many proven traders from lehman, bear, jp, etc have been gobbled up by professional prop houses and took away spots that would have gone to day traders with good records. You can't fault the firms for taking these types of traders on but unfortunately it means it's that much harder for you to get a spot.
Lastly, no matter what job you take even if you don't have to put down a small deposit, which I highly doubt...... You still need to have enough money to live on for atleast 9 months b/c it takes away the pressure and more than likely you'll be living off savings for most of the first year...... Also, someone said to open a retail account, this won't help you at all. In order to make more than three trades a week you have to maintain a balance in your trading accout no less than 25k and I'm assuming that if you're not sure about putting up 5k then 25k pluse money to trade above that will not be what you're looking for.
If you can not get a position at one of the legit prop shops like a first ny, schoenfeld, etc..... Then unfortunately the only option left if you wish to prop trade is to put up the 5k and learn on the job. There are far less firms backing traders currently and many proven traders from lehman, bear, jp, etc have been gobbled up by professional prop houses and took away spots that would have gone to day traders with good records. You can't fault the firms for taking these types of traders on but unfortunately it means it's that much harder for you to get a spot.
Lastly, no matter what job you take even if you don't have to put down a small deposit, which I highly doubt...... You still need to have enough money to live on for atleast 9 months b/c it takes away the pressure and more than likely you'll be living off savings for most of the first year...... Also, someone said to open a retail account, this won't help you at all. In order to make more than three trades a week you have to maintain a balance in your trading accout no less than 25k and I'm assuming that if you're not sure about putting up 5k then 25k pluse money to trade above that will not be what you're looking for.
Quote from TsTrades:
Okay, so it's unrealistic to assume that there are ANY other avenues to pursue when trying to break into the trading field than prop firms? That is, prop firms have an ironclad monopoly on traders starting off their careers? It's not that what you say is going in one ear and out the other -- it's that I don't buy what you're saying. Sorry.
Stock broker... back office stuff... programmer... coffee fetcher?
Do you have any education?
Why are you afraid of prop? I started prop with only a 2K deposit.
There are Canadian prop firms that require no deposit or "training" fee as well.
Quote from bespoke:
Stock broker... back office stuff... programmer... coffee fetcher?
Do you have any education?
Why are you afraid of prop? I started prop with only a 2K deposit.
There are Canadian prop firms that require no deposit or "training" fee as well.
+1, definitely. He will hear what he wants to hear.