All money is created out of debt? -or not?

[StarDust9182]

Quote from achilles28:

The Government doesn't operate like that. First, the Treasury doesn't have the authority to print money. Only the FED does. When the FED prints money, it is printed on the basis that it is a debt owed to the FED, with the interest owed to the Treasury (usually). That's how the system works.

Lincoln issued Greenbacks and JFK authorized the creation of silver/gold backed notes. That was true debt free currency because it was created without a debt. No interest accrued on the currency they created. Notice both were assassinated.

In fact, it is my understanding that every US assassinated president was associated with policies changing the monetary policy against private banking interests. You need to do your own research to verify this. The biggest issue is that history is written by the winners and the citizens are educated by the state. The echos remain in dusty books written about the specific issues at the time. The wizard of oz is a satire about this concept for example. Even the American revolution was said to be about monetary (and religious) freedom at heart.

If you have the authority to create money, in a system where money rules everything and every thing is for sale, then I think you can buy anything you need or want. Only mathematics stands in your way.

 

[achilles28]

Quote from dewton:

Yeah it's interesting that congress was given power by the constitution to print money, yet we instead gave away this power to a private institution (the Fed) and choose to become indebted to them when we don't have to.

Does anyone else think something is seriously wrong with this, or is it just me? Why is there vain debates on tax increases, tax cuts, and other things that don't matter when compared to such a gigantic issue such as a private organization printing money for this country?

Yes, you're correct. Many of the Founders in their personal letters and speeches (including the Federalist papers) warned against the creation of a national central bank, and the eventual usurpation of Government power by monied interests that would result from it. Andrew Jackson sought it the goal of his entire career to "kill the bank [national bank]". To wit, his face on the 20 dollar federal reserve note is sick joke. Much of the first 100 years of the nations founding was a fight between private interests to establish a central bank, and patriots who opposed it. The bankers eventually won.

Another interesting factoid is the passage of the income tax act the same year the Federal Reserve was established. The reason for the pairing was newly issued Treasury debt the Federal Reserve would buy and sell to manipulate rates, was to be backed by the labor of the American public. Iow, income taxes had to be instituted as a guarantee of payment for monies the Federal Reserve "loaned" to America, out of nothing. It's a scam. Once the camels nose was under the tent, the Government found a myriad of areas to bribe the people with their own money, and the descent into our bankruptcy begun in earnest.

 

[achilles28]

Quote from billyjoerob:

Glad we're clear on the idea of "debt free currency." Kinda puts the kibosh on "all money is debt," no?

Not at all. Because under the system we have now in America, all money is debt. There is not one single fiat US dollar or digital, that is not a Federal Reserve note, that accrues interest. So no, you're not clear on the idea, it seems.

 

[achilles28]

Quote from StarDust9182:

In fact, it is my understanding that every US assassinated president was associated with policies changing the monetary policy against private banking interests. You need to do your own research to verify this. The biggest issue is that history is written by the winners and the citizens are educated by the state. The echos remain in dusty books written about the specific issues at the time. The wizard of oz is a satire about this concept for example. Even the American revolution was said to be about monetary (and religious) freedom at heart.

If you have the authority to create money, in a system where money rules everything and every thing is for sale, then I think you can buy anything you need or want. Only mathematics stands in your way.

Yes, that's correct. The Money Masters by Bill Still is a great documentary filled with quotes from the period about the literal war that raged between private bankers and patriots.

 

[StarDust9182]

Quote from achilles28:

..... Another interesting factoid is the passage of the income tax act the same year the Federal Reserve was established. .....

I believe it was pushed through during the holiday season after promising that it would not be voted on. A betrayal. Such is politics.

The purpose of income taxes was that the interest needed to be paid and the government needed more revenue than tariffs provided. It was also a foot in the door for raising them forever.

But seemingly unknown at the time, there is a practical limit to revenue generation through taxation. So "they" are busy currently (over decades) to move to a new different type of revenue generation which can't be avoided as easily. The US has resisted to date, but we will see for how long that will be.

Of course these are only my reading of the tea leaves. I am sure there are lots of different explanations.

 

[mgabriel01]

Quote from vicirek:

But the question was how money is created.

It is 'created' every time you or someone like you borrows money from a bank
Because the bank can then make a new loan to someone else

look up: 'fractional reserve'

 

[BobbiDigital]

Quote from achilles28:

Yes, you're correct. Many of the Founders in their personal letters and speeches (including the Federalist papers) warned against the creation of a national central bank, and the eventual usurpation of Government power by monied interests that would result from it. Andrew Jackson sought it the goal of his entire career to "kill the bank [national bank]". To wit, his face on the 20 dollar federal reserve note is sick joke. Much of the first 100 years of the nations founding was a fight between private interests to establish a central bank, and patriots who opposed it. The bankers eventually won.

Another interesting factoid is the passage of the income tax act the same year the Federal Reserve was established. The reason for the pairing was newly issued Treasury debt the Federal Reserve would buy and sell to manipulate rates, was to be backed by the labor of the American public. Iow, income taxes had to be instituted as a guarantee of payment for monies the Federal Reserve "loaned" to America, out of nothing. It's a scam. Once the camels nose was under the tent, the Government found a myriad of areas to bribe the people with their own money, and the descent into our bankruptcy begun in earnest.

Interesting...That would explain the history of the same old rhetoric we hear every election by the politicians regarding taxes.

I always wonder who is in on the constant duping of the American public - politicians, media pundits, etc, and which of them are just blissfully ignorant.

 

[murray t turtle]

Quote from Newmoney24:

They say all money is created out of debt because when a loan is given, it is due back with interest,
OK, but my question is, Is this always the case?-

For instance, if the Fed gives $1T to the US government, but gives it in exchange for government bonds/treasuries, then isn't this an EXCHANGE? (not a loan)

if this is the case, there won't be interest accrued on the $1T, because it is not owed back to the Fed (because the Fed got treasuries in return)



Looking forward to hearing from you guys, thanks~

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You implication is exactly right,NewMoney;
silver,, gold ,,copper.....which maybe debt related..Or usually in this case ,[silver gold, copper..],has nothing to do with debt. Hebrew Bible dictionary defines silver as ''silver ,,money'' But that is Gods opinion; the Fed may differ..... I like FED Reserve Notes 2, who wants to buy a home with $100,00 worth of silver dimes /armoured truck,,LOL

 

[ronblack]

Quote from Newmoney24:

They say all money is created out of debt because when a loan is given, it is due back with interest,
OK, but my question is, Is this always the case?-

No. Do not confuse credit with money. Money is tangible stuff the government prints. Debt is credit that is repaid with tangible money or with more credit. When credit keeps repaying credit you get a financial crisis. Then to get out of it you must print some tangible money to repay back some of the credit. This is what is happening at this point. There was too much credit and little money to service it. Now there is more money due to QE. QE is good stuff unless it ignites inflation. No problem until now, QE has been good.

 

[ammo]

whalers need fish hooks,fish hook maker needs whale oil,so they barter,but they have more to trade against that value system so they create i.o.u.s or credits, ,so the moccasin maker doesnt have to get the whalers money from the fish hook maker, money is a means of exchange, the banks are the dishonest bookkeepers of the value of that mean,like the politicians and sherriffs and two year olds , if they have no one to answer to...