Alexis Tsipras' "open letter" to German citizens

[d08]

But then Tsipras appeared to take direct aim at Germany and the EU's demands...

• *TSIPRAS SAYS GOVT WILL MAKE GREECE ECONOMICALLY AUTONOMOUS
• *TSIPRAS SAYS GOVT WILL FIGHT TO GET OUT OF BAILOUT DEAD END
• *TSIPRAS SAYS WANTS TO NEGOTIATE TO MAKE DEBT SUSTAINABLE
• *TSIPRAS SAYS AUSTERITY WILL MAKE GREEK DEBT PROBLEM WORSE
• "We must build a new independent Greece which is equal to our partners in Europe."
• *TSIPRAS SAYS GREEK GOVT WILL FULLY IMPLEMENT ELECTION PLEDGES
• "We will keep our pre-election promises. This is non-negotiable."
• *TSIPRAS SAYS GREEKS CAN'T TAKE MORE DISAPPOINTMENT
• "We will put an end to presidential decrees and bring back respect for the constitution"

Greece is a like a teenager who stole the keys, took dad's car, crashed it into a post and then rebels about not being treated like an adult.

Tsipras quickly forgets what happened when Greeks were in charge. Everyone just partied all night every day but there was no-one to clean up the day after.
And now he wants the the party to continue as it was because the hangover is too tough to handle.
Greece needs rehab (austerity)!

 

[Tsing Tao]

There's also an alternate scenario where Greece leaves the Eurozone and the EU while the unions stay intact, after all, Greece is also a tiny part of EU. It's a test of sorts, before any of this the EMU didn't follow the rules set by themselves and there's where the problems started. As with anything, if there is no discipline, it fails.

Also, the subsidy system has to be scrapped or completely redesigned.
I know people who didn't do anything but wrote EU grant requests and made a nice living off of that, scamming the system with zero benefit to society. This is a €500 billion+ business across the EU.

Portugal dealt quite well with the issues and I think will come out much stronger in the upcoming decades. It's possible that Spain will also get their act together.

That is certainly possible. But I think the rise of Podemos might put an end to normalcy and common sense - especially if they see Greece get away with it.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Greece is a like a teenager who stole the keys, took dad's car, crashed it into a post and then rebels about not being treated like an adult.

Tsipras quickly forgets what happened when Greeks were in charge. Everyone just partied all night every day but there was no-one to clean up the day after.
And now he wants the the party to continue as it was because the hangover is too tough to handle.
Greece needs rehab (austerity)!

All the more reason to boot the teen out of the house and make them fend for themselves.

 

[i am nobody]

It is clear that the Greeks are real criminals. This is what Varoufakis said today: "The euro is very fragile, like a house of cards. If you pull out the Greek cards from it, all others will fall too. "
So he is threatening Europe. At the same time he is dreaming: A "new deal" for the Greek economy is the only option, similar to the original US plan that the United States in the 30s started in the crisis. He looks for that towards the European Investment Bank (EIB) who should fund such investment.

So again, Greece should do nothing, Europe should pay, invest, drop debts from past for milliards of euros....
This new Marshall plan would be needed for investments, but Greeks don't invest, they only spent other's money.
They should be thrown out of the Euro, and the Euro will be better off. And if they don't pay back as promised put an economical ban on them. Criminals and blackmailers should be punished severly.

In Ireland, Portugal and Spain the same reorganisations were succesful. If it is not the case in Greece it is because of the Greeks.

 

[alexandert]

I have to agree with Tsing Tao and disagree with others that try to teach Tsipras and Greek people responsible behavior. This incluses d08.
I am a proud US citizen and no soisalist and belive Tsipras has a hard road in front of him. But this road is so much better than being a EU (read German) poppet.
They have a right to do it their own way. The debt burden they curently have is not sustainable and is just another form of a EU slavery. The earlier they start figuring out things for themself the better off they are going to be for a long run.
And stop pretending that Greese is an ungreatful child for all the Money EU gave them. It is more of that EU was irresponsible entity for throwing those bilions at the corrupted Greek Goverment. And yes they were trying to fix thier own problems by doing that.

 

[Visaria]

Don't confuse the issue with facts, Visaria.

Sorry, but it is all i have. I am not well versed in the art of spin.

 

[Visaria]

Wait, did I miss something, was Greece also bombed flat by a multitude of countries in the past decade?
No they weren't, they were just dishonest and lazy. There's a mighty big difference.

Hitler rose to power only because of the ridiculous war reparations forced onto them by the allies, even Keynes said it will inevitably lead to war. So there is no point starting the story with Hitler, it started way before he came to power.

bt

You just made my point. Hitler came to power, partially because the Allies would not restructure or renegotiate the war debt.

We could do without a new greek style hitler arising from the ashes of Greece.

 

[d08]

bt

You just made my point. Hitler came to power, partially because the Allies would not restructure or renegotiate the war debt.

We could do without a new greek style hitler arising from the ashes of Greece.

Trust me, comparing Germany to Greece is laughable at best.
The threats by Syriza of Greece becoming the next military threat cannot be taken seriously.
The worst thing that can happen is the right wingers in Greece killing a few immigrants; they can't possibly try anything against Turkey, not that they would as Greeks like the easy life - they wouldn't have the discipline to invade anyone.

 

[d08]

All the more reason to boot the teen out of the house and make them fend for themselves.

Absolutely, you're right about that. They'd come back crying quite fast though, I don't think the international community should offer any help when they do.

 

[d08]

I have to agree with Tsing Tao and disagree with others that try to teach Tsipras and Greek people responsible behavior. This incluses d08.
I am a proud US citizen and no soisalist and belive Tsipras has a hard road in front of him. But this road is so much better than being a EU (read German) poppet.
They have a right to do it their own way. The debt burden they curently have is not sustainable and is just another form of a EU slavery. The earlier they start figuring out things for themself the better off they are going to be for a long run.
And stop pretending that Greese is an ungreatful child for all the Money EU gave them. It is more of that EU was irresponsible entity for throwing those bilions at the corrupted Greek Goverment. And yes they were trying to fix thier own problems by doing that.

Do you pay your mortgage? I mean, based on your logic it's just another form of slavery and you should default. If you lie to the bank on your application and then refuse to pay, what do you think the bank does? In your view the bank here is at fault, for me the mortgage owner is clearly to blame.
The "troika" threw that money toward Greece with clear conditions and plans, with oversight and everything. It's just that the Greeks are refusing to honor the loan conditions.
Since Syriza came to power, the debt has increased, so I'm not sure how you can say they're trying to fix the situation. They're just planning to extort EU.
Time and time again the Greeks have proven that they can't manage their own finances, they're saying "this time it's different" but I don't buy it.

When talking about Greece benefiting from leaving EMU and/or EU, it's worth to consider that Greece is by far the largest per capita recipient of farm subsidies, Spain is a distant number two. Leaving the EU will definitely make the farmers unhappy as we are talking about billions in a relatively small country; Syriza's time in the government could be short in this scenario.