Alexis Tsipras' "open letter" to German citizens

[Tsing Tao]

no they wont, and that was again NEVER the point. Mate, the point is that Greece is expected to act responsibly, they can restructure as many times as they want, pending agreement of the creditors of course, as long as they don't piss in everyone's face. And if they do they do it only once and will subsequently get kicked out of the club. Europe can do well without Greece, Greece cannot do well without Europe in its current form. They can do anything that pleases them but they have to bear the consequences. And most Greeks are not prepared for the consequences, nor is its central bank, nor are its domestic banks, nor is its government.

I give up, I just cannot afford to lose more time over repeating what I said many pages ago. I never even once said or hinted at believing that Greece will repay its bailout packages as are. If you thought so then you wasted a lot of energy for hot air. Good night.

No argument with any of this. Completely agree.

Just keep in mind that while Greece is expected to "act responsibly", when a people feel like they have no other options, what is "responsible" to them moves into a grey area. Greeks will be Greeks at the end of the day - not Germans.

Never once did I argue that what Greece will do is moral or fair. Just that they consider it "right".

 

[volpunter]

sure, and to be honest in whatever way they decide to go I am fine with it because I think even the naively trusting Germans are by now acutely aware of all the tricks and attempted ambushes by Greeks. You can's have money and do nothing for it in exchange. I think that is the exact same message the ECB sent towards Greece today when it denied short-term bridge loans that would have exceeded the limit by 10bln euros.

No argument with any of this. Completely agree.

Just keep in mind that while Greece is expected to "act responsibly", when a people feel like they have no other options, what is "responsible" to them moves into a grey area. Greeks will be Greeks at the end of the day - not Germans.

Never once did I argue that what Greece will do is moral or fair. Just that they consider it "right".

 

[Visaria]

"if the customer can pay". Sure, the only slight problem with your walk through is that customers are not paying those insane amounts and vacation elsewhere, or why do you think that despite the crisis people (at least in a normal world) would assume price decreases they are charged a many fold of what products should be priced at. Result -> Less customers, and the dummies instead charge more and more to make up for lost revenues. That I witnessed first hands and if I can dig out some of the photos taken then I will happily post them here to show what audacious prices are asked. And by the way, most every business outside of Greece charges less when demand slows not more. It is simple supply and demand econ 101. But maybe that somehow gets lost on you for whatever reason.

You missed the main point - restaurants charge what they think they can get. Presumably the greek restaurant owners are still making money from charging higher prices than u would like. If you cannot afford it, you should go to the local Mcd!

 

[luisHK]

You missed the main point - restaurants charge what they think they can get. Presumably the greek restaurant owners are still making money from charging higher prices than u would like. If you cannot afford it, you should go to the local Mcd!

No, Tsintao claim was that the country would become very atractive for tourists because of cheap drachma, and cheap costs. Which doesn't fit high restaurant prices (dunno about the current prices in Greece, but it definetely used to be a cheap destination. I have a hard time conciling Greece and high end although it seems there are a bunch of fine hotels in the country ). Besides one doesn't need to go to the Mc Donald if he finds a country's restaurant poorly valued, he can also select another country for his vacation.
Internet is a bit slow for me to look it up again and post it here, but tourism in Greece took a dive during the height of the crisis, before picking up noticeably in 2014.
Going back under the spotlight might not benefit Greek tourism.

 

[Visaria]

I'm sure they have different restaurants to cater for different budgets.

 

[volpunter]

you keep on repeating I miss the main point while you lack the apparent basics of Econ 101. Apple does not charge the price for its phones that some could afford. If that was the case they would charge 10,000 dollars per phone. Virtu attempted that and we all know how they ended up, the company was sold for a mere 200 million to a private equity firm. For beginners, 200 million is an amount Uber and Co would not even shake your hands for and private equity firms usually buy companies that are badly mismanaged, lever up debt to restructure and then hopefully sell in the future at higher cost or take the whole company apart in pieces. Apple sells phones that are priced for the general retail market. When I talked about restaurants in Greece I am not talking about 5 star restaurants, I am talking about fisherman's shacks and marinas that cater to casual tourists. So, your funny suggestions aside what I can afford or not, your understanding of econ 101 is the one that misses the point.

You missed the main point - restaurants charge what they think they can get. Presumably the greek restaurant owners are still making money from charging higher prices than u would like. If you cannot afford it, you should go to the local Mcd!

 

[volpunter]

sure they do and congratulations you still miss the point. Greece over all on average has to work hard to again offer products and services that are marketable. Marketable means products and services at competitive cost and at a quality level that rivals those of competing nations. If Greece cannot manage to attract more tourists than even boring old Germany then there is something wrong with the product.

I'm sure they have different restaurants to cater for different budgets.

 

[Visaria]

Your lack of business nous is your problem. You come across as a academic economist, with no real experience of the world.

 

[volpunter]

and you are on ignore, I do not have the time nor propensity to debate with dumb people.

Your lack of business nous is your problem. You come across as a academic economist, with no real experience of the world.

 

[Tsing Tao]

No, Tsintao claim was that the country would become very atractive for tourists because of cheap drachma, and cheap costs. Which doesn't fit high restaurant prices (dunno about the current prices in Greece, but it definetely used to be a cheap destination. I have a hard time conciling Greece and high end although it seems there are a bunch of fine hotels in the country ). Besides one doesn't need to go to the Mc Donald if he finds a country's restaurant poorly valued, he can also select another country for his vacation.
Internet is a bit slow for me to look it up again and post it here, but tourism in Greece took a dive during the height of the crisis, before picking up noticeably in 2014.
Going back under the spotlight might not benefit Greek tourism.

Once the smoke and fire cleared from a Greek exit (and I am in no means suggesting it won't be carnage - but the Greeks will survive) cheap tourism to a country of beautiful islands and culture (ignoring the chaos from bankruptcy) will bring Europeans, Asians and Americans to Greece much like it did in the past.