Alexis Tsipras' "open letter" to German citizens

[volpunter]

Please comment on the austerity part. Agree that implementing wide ranging cost savings measures does have a big impact on Greece's ability to restructure its economy and institutions and that it over time positively influences its ability to repay debt. Agree that austerity was a central point in the bailout packages. Agree that the European Union and those working on the bailout package did not just attempt to screw Greece (dont forget major private lenders and some of the brightest within banks were part of the deal) but that they took austerity measures, a major tax reform and structural changes into account when they set required rates of returns for the bailout funds.

If you can agree on this base line then we can continue to talk else I find it useless to debate with someone who denies facts and the truth. It would be like arguing with someone who denies the holocaust and skips over every historical and physical evidence.

P.S.: Please do not cry us a river, nobody ever denied that austerity measures are bitter pills to swallow, create unemployment in the short term, people kicking and screaming, and that they are a lot of pain. But suggesting (I did not say you suggest) that it is bad to fire certain people who do nothing but sharpen pencils is ludicrous.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Hey, you just lost all your value, you clearly stated the only point you wanted to make is that "Greece will not be able to repay its debt". Why should anyone else or I for that matter want to continue to discuss further with you? You ran out of points already on page 1 lol, I was just too dumb to see it.

No idea what this even means. Except the fact that you were too dumb to see something. That's not surprising.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Please comment on the austerity part. Agree that implementing wide ranging cost savings measures does have a big impact on Greece's ability to restructure its economy and institutions and that it over time positively influences its ability to repay debt. Agree that austerity was a central point in the bailout packages. Agree that the European Union and those working on the bailout package did not just attempt to screw Greece (dont forget major private lenders and some of the brightest within banks were part of the deal) but that they took austerity measures, a major tax reform and structural changes into account when they set required rates of returns for the bailout funds.

If you can agree on this base line then we can continue to talk else I find it useless to debate with someone who denies facts and the truth. It would be like arguing with someone who denies the holocaust and skips over every historical and physical evidence.

P.S.: Please do not cry us a river, nobody ever denied that austerity measures are bitter pills to swallow, create unemployment in the short term, people kicking and screaming, and that they are a lot of pain. But suggesting (I did not say you suggest) that it is bad to fire certain people who do nothing but sharpen pencils is ludicrous.

Austerity does, indeed, have an impact on Greece's ability to restructure it's economy - insofar that it is executed properly. But as you have correctly stated previously, the Greeks are not exactly good at implementing austerity. So the answer is that yes, it will work, but only if the Greek's do it (which they won't).

 

[volpunter]

and you of course know that, wait, let me guess, because you vacationed there during your honeymoon? Of course one needs to push people for their luck which is precisely why candy and goodies were delivered along with austerity requirements. And I tell ya, the goodies are delicious, the Greek soul loves them. Now its time for the austerity pill little boy, take your water and swallow. If not your big Mama Angie is gonna become very angry with you. So, bail or not ...I question a vacationer and someone who lived a little in Eastern Europe, a little in Moscow has the ability to precisely judge that.

But thanks for at least admitting that your link and argument that "Greece cannot repay a dime because even at 0% interest it would not be able to do so" is illogical in the absence of any austerity and structural change considerations.

Geez. yawn...good night mate, I hope your Fed debate goes better than what you delivered here.

Austerity does, indeed, have an impact on Greece's ability to restructure it's economy - insofar that it is executed properly. But as you have correctly stated previously, the Greeks are not exactly good at implementing austerity. So the answer is that yes, it will work, but only if the Greek's do it (which they won't).

 

[Tsing Tao]

and you of course know that, wait, let me guess, because you vacationed there during your honeymoon? Of course one needs to push people for their luck which is precisely why candy and goodies were delivered along with austerity requirements. And I tell ya, the goodies are delicious, the Greek soul loves them. Now its time for the austerity pill little boy, take your water and swallow. If not your big Mama Angie is gonna become very angry with you. So, bail or not ...I question a vacationer and someone who lived a little in Eastern Europe, a little in Moscow has the ability to precisely judge that.

But thanks for at least admitting that your link and argument that "Greece cannot repay a dime because even at 0% interest it would not be able to do so" is illogical in the absence of any austerity and structural change considerations.

Geez. yawn...good night mate, I hope your Fed debate goes better than what you delivered here.

So, all of your childish insults aside, you believe the Greeks will repay the debt back in it's current form, without negotiation or adjustment?

Would you care to place a wager on that?

 

[volpunter]

I pointed out many times that the bailout and repayment is not a matter of repaying all of its debt. It is a program designed to keep Greece afloat while it enacts austerity measures that combat and reign in the insane spending. Because the bailout funds were never on top of any of Greek's debt but part of the restructuring of Greek's debt the aim therefore is also not complete downpayment of Greek debt but a debt reduction. Does not finally make sense to you? So, sure, if Greeks decide to not limit their insane spending then they will sooner or later hit the wall. No question about it and I never even started to question that. If they understand, on the other hand, that they cannot continue with their lavish lifestyles as they have done then there is hope. What you think and what probability you attach to their choice matters unfortunately not at all (other than your trading positions that you hopefully place due to your strong convictions).

So, all of your childish insults aside, you believe the Greeks will repay the debt back in it's current form, without negotiation or adjustment?

Would you care to place a wager on that?

 

[Tsing Tao]

I pointed out many times that the bailout and repayment is not a matter of repaying all of its debt. It is a program designed to keep Greece afloat while it enacts austerity measures that combat and reign in the insane spending. Because the bailout funds were never on top of any of Greek's debt but part of the restructuring of Greek's debt the aim therefore is also not complete downpayment of Greek debt but a debt reduction. Does not finally make sense to you?

I thought you were going to sleep? You sure do show a lot of desire in a supposed thread you are "done with" - not to mention following me into the P&R section to pick a fight down there, too. Obsess much?

So will the Greeks repay back the bailout in it's current form? Or said in a different manner, will the Greeks be able/willing to implement austerity that will allow them to pay back the bailout in it's current form? In your professional opinion, of course.

 

[volpunter]

you completely missed the point made in the very same article that you yourself posted!

I thought you were going to sleep? You sure do show a lot of desire in a supposed thread you are "done with" - not to mention following me into the P&R section to pick a fight down there, too. Obsess much?

So will the Greeks repay back the bailout in it's current form? Or said in a different manner, will the Greeks be able/willing to implement austerity that will allow them to pay back the bailout in it's current form? In your professional opinion, of course.

 

[Tsing Tao]

you completely missed the point made in the very same article that you yourself posted!

The only thing I'm missing is your answer. Is there a reason you're afraid of answering the question I posed?

 

[volpunter]

no they wont, and that was again NEVER the point. Mate, the point is that Greece is expected to act responsibly, they can restructure as many times as they want, pending agreement of the creditors of course, as long as they don't piss in everyone's face. And if they do they do it only once and will subsequently get kicked out of the club. Europe can do well without Greece, Greece cannot do well without Europe in its current form. They can do anything that pleases them but they have to bear the consequences. And most Greeks are not prepared for the consequences, nor is its central bank, nor are its domestic banks, nor is its government.

I give up, I just cannot afford to lose more time over repeating what I said many pages ago. I never even once said or hinted at believing that Greece will repay its bailout packages as are. If you thought so then you wasted a lot of energy for hot air. Good night.

The only thing I'm missing is your answer. Is there a reason you're afraid of answering the question I posed?