Unlike you I never made up a single thing in this thread. And it makes me a Nazi sympathizer because I point out and criticize the fact that Jewish interest groups globally swing the Holocaust axe each single time Germany is mentioned on any newspapers front page? You are a childish and maybe slightly naive little boy If you fail to see the games that are played by certain lobby groups. An even bigger LOL to you.
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Alexis Tsipras' "open letter" to German citizens
- Thread starter Tsing Tao
- Start date
Of course and it amuses me that this seems news to Tsingtao. American Taxpayers where the single largest entity that was on the hook for the whole 2008 bailout, mostly an American born crisis. We can all work to voice our concerns and dislike about socializing losses but acting surprised it happens everywhere and every time is displaying naivity.The whole idea on which the financial crisis bailout was shouldered was that the cost to society would have been larger without the taxpayer extending loans to nearly bankrupt institutions. And same in Europe. If anyone suggests that the European idea is as small as some financial considerations, is just about Germany or Greece or any individual scheme then one fails to understand the true benefit the EU has brought to its member states. Even forgiving the entire Greek debt would be an extremely small price to pay in exchange for all received benefits. Not that I am advocating debt forgiveness in its entirety.
The European taxpayers collectively own a lot of the original debt (through the EFSF, ECB etc). In fact, only 10% of the €300bn or so owed by Greece is in private hands. Some is owed to the IMF, so the US taxpayer is on the hook for a wee bit as well.
No its not you ass clown....the Germans risked and paid the most and Greeks payed and risked the least. Yet the arrogance expressed by Greeks very much sounds like it's the other way around. Oh sorry was this a rhetorical question? Another lol for you.
Of the share the European taxpayers own, is it equally divided across all countries?
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Really? I would say the cash flows each year out of some countries and into other countries have a very clear clue who the net payers and chief risk takers are. And how ECB and other bodies are capitalized is also perfectly transparent and clear. Can I help dig out some stats for you in case we are on different pages?
Ha, that's kind of a bazillion dollar question. In theory, and I stress that this is just theory, the majority is probably apportioned according to ECB's capital key, which is roughly based on countries' respective shares of Eurozone population and GDP. Obviously, nobody has a clue abt what might happen in practice.
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Chuckle chuckle, yes brother ... generally that is the precise right that creditors have. Maybe you can try it out on your own and max out on the debt of your credit card. Let's see how long you are gonna sit on your TV and stereo.
but germany is imposing things against the will of greece...greece is not being told to take it or leave it, more like if you don't take it, you will be booted out
look, if a company or individual can't pay back loans, then the loan is restructured, the company goes into chapter 11 or the individual is made bankrupt and then discharged from having to pay back any outstanding debts. who the hell says, here, have some more debt even though you cant pay back the first lot? the same principle happens with a country, either restructure the loans or default on them. this is what needs to be done, not this ridiculous fascist behaviour from germany.
No its not you ass clown....
not very civilized for a german, are u?
Let's carry this thought further, you are stopping half way. Anyone who went into personal bankruptcy won't be eligible for a single loan, mortgage for years. Most likely one would even have trouble securing car insurance, health insurance, and many products that even in the lightest touch on credit or require a credit history. Your standing as an upright and responsible citizen is destroyed for years to come. That is a fact not my opinion.
The same applies to a country that goes into default. Russia never recovered from it going into default. Nor did many other countries. Sure there will always be some suckers that earn money too easily and chase yield and make the same stupid investment mistakes again. But it will be another fact that credit-wise Greece will be DONE for years to come should it choose to default on its obligations.
As Martinghoul wisely points out: You can't have it all. You must choose one or the other, both come with consequences. And Germany cannot do a thing if Greece decides to default. By the way, are you blind? Germany is more than happy to let Greece off the hook, to let Greece default and to let Greece leave the union. Of course Merkel would never openly say so, but this is the overall policy stance towards Greece at this point in time. It was very different 2-3 years ago but Germany is fed up. So, if Germany was the only creditor there would have not been a single additional extension granted last week. Germany would have forced Greece to make up its mind, and it very much would have the right as creditor to demand a decision. But Europe is not just Germany. There are plenty others in the Eurogroup who have a vested interest in being perceived as supportive of Greece. But this seeming support is as self serving as Greece's government, as self serving as Germany. Get real, and look at the facts and stop believing the nonsense you read in some gossip blogs.
The same applies to a country that goes into default. Russia never recovered from it going into default. Nor did many other countries. Sure there will always be some suckers that earn money too easily and chase yield and make the same stupid investment mistakes again. But it will be another fact that credit-wise Greece will be DONE for years to come should it choose to default on its obligations.
As Martinghoul wisely points out: You can't have it all. You must choose one or the other, both come with consequences. And Germany cannot do a thing if Greece decides to default. By the way, are you blind? Germany is more than happy to let Greece off the hook, to let Greece default and to let Greece leave the union. Of course Merkel would never openly say so, but this is the overall policy stance towards Greece at this point in time. It was very different 2-3 years ago but Germany is fed up. So, if Germany was the only creditor there would have not been a single additional extension granted last week. Germany would have forced Greece to make up its mind, and it very much would have the right as creditor to demand a decision. But Europe is not just Germany. There are plenty others in the Eurogroup who have a vested interest in being perceived as supportive of Greece. But this seeming support is as self serving as Greece's government, as self serving as Germany. Get real, and look at the facts and stop believing the nonsense you read in some gossip blogs.
look, if a company or individual can't pay back loans, then the loan is restructured, the company goes into chapter 11 or the individual is made bankrupt and then discharged from having to pay back any outstanding debts. who the hell says, here, have some more debt even though you cant pay back the first lot? the same principle happens with a country, either restructure the loans or default on them. this is what needs to be done, not this ridiculous fascist behaviour from germany.
Erm, I ain't talking abt what goes on now and the stats etc. I am talking abt what happens if, for instance, one of the Eurosystem NCBs needs to be recapitalised or if exit actually takes place. Regardless of your claims to the contrary, you actually have no clue what occurs when/if this happens. The system is quite complex and, most importantly, untested (if you like I could refer you to the opinion expressed by ECB's legal counsel). Indeed, that's why the whole discussion of "risk sharing" in the context of ECB QE is such a farce.Really? I would say the cash flows each year out of some countries and into other countries have a very clear clue who the net payers and chief risk takers are. And how ECB and other bodies are capitalized is also perfectly transparent and clear. Can I help dig out some stats for you in case we are on different pages?
Well, you would agree that the capitalization of the ECB is spelled out in much detail, no? That indirectly already defines the risk sharing of anything on ECB's balance sheet as well should ECB ever face such risk. You could say the same applies to the Fed as well. Which US state will be sharing how much risk? Nobody really knows nor is it set out in any terms. But why would it be necessary to even consider if the whole US economic survival hinges on the trust and faith in the solvency and liquidity of the Fed. Same with the ECB. And why do you think ECB pulled their lines 2 weeks ago and why do you think ECB reserved the right to reject Greek bonds as collateral a while ago.
Erm, I ain't talking abt what goes on now and the stats etc. I am talking abt what happens if, for instance, one of the Eurosystem NCBs needs to be recapitalised or if exit actually takes place. Regardless of your claims to the contrary, you actually have no clue what occurs when/if this happens. The system is quite complex and, most importantly, untested (if you like I could refer you to the opinion expressed by ECB's legal counsel). Indeed, that's why the whole discussion of "risk sharing" in the context of ECB QE is such a farce.