Grow up!
After attempting to de-legitimize the press, WH+GOP going after Justice department.
- Thread starter Cuddles
- Start date
The democrats on the Intel Committee and the Justice Department/FBI have been selectively leaking information harmful to Trump and fighting release of the areas where his concerns have merit for a long, long, long time. The dems like that. It has caused a lot of damage and they would like it to continue. Tomorrow something will go out that they can start splaining. It moves the ball forward and is just the beginning of follow on investigation so if there are still unanswered questions and the dems want to make their case, then MORE THAN FINE. But the dems/fbi have stonewalled it for over a year. That ends right this week. The dems and the fbi played their cares wrong. They should have negotiated a deal where they turned over the information but that it would not be released to the public. But no, they made it all-or-none and the republics had to get a subpoena. Rosenstein has won at this game so many times he thought he would win on this too. He didn't.
In regard to review by "disinterested parties" and "courts" etc., anyone subject to action under the released material will have access to the courts, the right to an attorney, and the right to watch the government try to ruin their lives- the same deal they are giving Trump and everyone he ever knew or associated with. Sorry about that.
When the time comes when I want Peter Stzok and Lisa Page to sit around on government payroll and think about whether the next President should be the one lawfully elected by the people or the one guaranteed by their "insurance policy" I will let you know. In the meantime I want them rooted out and all the trash around them, Loretta, Comey, McCabe, Rosenstein, Ohr, .......etc, etc.
What kind of faux liberal are you anyway? This is an absolutely core liberal issue or used to be. When you find out that Clapper lied through his teeth and was in fact spying on civilian Americans, the liberal response is not supposed to be to automatically protect him and give him a big wet kiss. Nor should that be your response as a civil liberties liberal when you see what the government goons are doing.
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They've got you believing don't they?
You make some good points with your responses. If there is broader evidence providing context then this should be released as well. I am not buying for a minute that providing more FBI information on this investigation is a threat to national security.
We will wait to see how this all plays out.
One of the problems that the government runs into - including prosecutors going after camp trump or fbi/rosenstien types- down the road is that the prosecutors and swamp may want to hold on to some some of the darker secrets but aggressive defense teams know that they have a right to see anything that is reasonably related to their clients defense. The fact that Rosenstein doesn't want to be identified in a memo- for example- means nothing to either the defense team or the judge. Everyone knows- especially high powered defense teams used to dealing with intel agencies- that a common way of trying to get a dismissal for your client is to push the government to the point where it has to choose between prosecuting a case or having the case dismissed because it is unwilling to produce state secrets.
We have just come through a year long period waiting for the government to produce info in response to a subpoena. A trial judge would have just dismissed the case long ago. It is true that even at trial there would be substantial haggling over whether a document was actually relevant and needed- for example- but it is still within a context and premise of everyone agreeing that you have to convince the judge- versus Rod Rosenstein just saying FU what are you going to do about it.
Some of that to come. Mannafort knows that game big time too. The government has been spying on him but he also knows about the government dirty operations abroad too, and not to forget that before he started working with the trump campaign, he was working under contract with the Podesta Group which hired fusion which hired steel who was paying Russian/kgb agents all while coordinating with the FBI. Yeh, they got stuff on him. He got stuff on the fbi too.
All of the process stuff is par for the course. If Manafort doesn’t want to play ball then they’ll see him in court. He’ll have his day then go to jail. I find it hard to believe Mueller’s team is dumb enough to charge him with charges that will be an open liability for the FBI and state secrets.
I will say this, it looks like things are about to get intense very quickly.
That's what I said.
Prosecutors/fbi may withhold things now- even beyond what is being released- but down the road they will be confronted by defense teams who want to see it, and many a case/charge has ended right there- except for some garbage side event from a perjury trap or failing to register as a lobbyist/agent whatever.
As soon as Rosenstein lost his battle with the Intel Committee to withhold info and witnesses then the rest followed immediately. That is why Rosenstein spent over a year with the kabuki dance to keep it from being released. And it why he has spent considerable time lobbying the white house to make sure that his name and others are redacted from the final release. Not sure where that ended out. Couple networks are reporting that Trump yielded to some redactions. Others are standing firm that congress people who saw both versions assert that there were only grammar and syntax changes. Don't know but it still bad news if you are Rosenstein and Comey. I guess Comey is the Poet Laureate of the FBI now. Of course he has the time for it.
I am very much a believer in as much transparency as possible. The problem for me is I have no way of knowing of course what the NSA, CIA, and FBI are doing behind closed doors, other than the little bits that occasionally leak. I was just as unhappy about the NSA communications monitoring revealed by Snowden as Merkel was. I think I could be OK with it if I knew what safeguards were in place and I knew much more detail and could be assured that our Bill of Rights wasn't being Trampled on. But then if I knew these things, so would those of evil intent. It's a dilemma. So what to do? If I could choose to accept more risk for greater freedom, I would. But others wouldn't feel the same. I am not inclined to get into a philosophical discussion, but I have noticed what seems like an involuntary trade-off of greater personal freedom for greater risk in the South American Countries. In North America, the trade off seems to run in the opposite direction and be less voluntary. I'm convinced that distrust of the FBI is currently being manufactured on extremely flimsy evidence. It certainly does not meet my personal smell test.
It should be the Job of the DOJ to see that the Mueller investigation is politically unfettered and that those carrying out the investigation are doing so impartially according to the law. I'm fine with someone who has contributed to Republican or Democratic politics (as a by-stander), or has resigned from a Trump-organization owned golf club seven years ago*, leading an investigation of Russian involvement in a U.S. election. Any interference with Mueller's investigation whether by a Democrat or Republican politician, or the White House, should be unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. Such interference should definitely include any attempt to discredit Mueller's investigators on flimsy evidence. In my opinion, the President's insults hurled at FBI investigators should be considered as unacceptable contempt, the same as a sitting judge would consider such remarks were they the target. That alone should be grounds for impeachment, but of course it won't be. What have we come to that we accept this childish behavior in our President? Even Nixon did not stoop that low!
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*www.telegraph.co.uk › NewsJan 26, 2018 - It was a standard inquiry about the refund of yearly golf dues. But Robert Mueller's 2011 request was never answered. The then-director of the FBI resigned from the Trump golf course in Sterling, Virginia, and gave it little more thought. In June 2017, however, that resignation became a source of fury for ...
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