Genesis is directly connected in equity.. it is DMA.
i said for prime brokerage and other markets then yes, re read my post. For automation on US equity to reason for GS
Advise RETAIL broker for ultra-high frequency automated trading on NASDAQ
- Thread starter GreenMan
- Start date
Genesis is directly connected in equity.. it is DMA.
i said for prime brokerage and other markets then yes, re read my post. For automation on US equity to reason for GS
but for ultra HF - as asked by OP - I guess that is not enough. of course, you could host a machine with Genesis which would help, but sending orders via internet will be SSSLLLOOOWWW in HF terms.
we have just set up a connection for auto trading with one of the big firms. connected via radianz to their lowest latency servers. delay from me sending an order from my machine (i.e. it leaving my algo) to a confirmation hitting my machine is approx 40ms. That is fine for me but wouldn't cut it for UHF - hosting machines at the exchanges or in the broker's comm room is the only option for single-figure ms latency.
You need a reality check
No one is sending orders via internet.
40MS is EXTREMLY slow.
Genesis is sittind directly connected to all exchanges with their own colos at the exchanges. Ping times are under 1ms.
order round trip we get is under 9ms and we are not doing hardcore optimization on the orders.
If needed, we can get down to 5-3ms for the order, but for our trading it doesn't justify the hassle.
lol - that's fine, and I never claimed to be too quick, just outlined where we were. it's all we need right now and i know it could be cut down a lot - we hold our machines locally in our office instead of hosting at the broker for a start.
But now you need a reality check. Sounds like you have a good tech set-up and by saying "we" it sounds like you work in a team. The OP on the other hand asked about a retail setup. "no-one is sending orders via the internet". Mate, almost all RETAIL traders send orders via the internet. I don't know Genesis well but I guess hosting a machine at their end rather than connnecting via internet costs extra? maybe not. but an ultra-low latency price feed definitely costs extra and well above most retail budgets. just because most sophisticated professional high freq desks have a set-up similar to or better than yours does not mean that's the "reality" for most (retail) traders.
bottom line - all i am saying is that if the OP has a high 4 figure or above monthly budget for costs, UHF trading is possible. If you want a simple API connection, non-hosted solution with basic price feeds, it probably isn't.
I'm not trying to argue but need to set a few things straight. In your previous post you were talking needs of an HF.
Now you're saying a retail investor.
Here are the facts:
Genesis does not allow API trading via the internet (they allow testing on one or two stocks and that's it).
All real API trading (unless people found a way around it) is done either at their site (meanign the servers are there) or at the exchange's site.
We didn't opt for the latter b/c we needed all exchanges not just one.
Whether ur retail, institutional or prop doesn't matter as far as automated trading is concerned.
Yes, you will need to pay for hosting, but that's true anywhere else.
So, going to a firm like GS for only trading nasdaq doesn't make sens if you want better speed - you can get better (or same at worst) at places like Genesis.
For connectivity to NASDAQ -same thing -they are both connected.
For pricing - probably will be much cheaper at Genesis than at GS
For prime brokerage, HF admin services, trading with street, investor services - then GS is the solution.
But not on speed at all.
Genesis has been great for me and for our firm and especially on the automated land. I hope their business grows during these uncertain times.
gotcha - i don't think we fundamentally disagree here.
when i use the acronym HF on this thread, I am using it for high freq, not hedge fund - sorry if that is the source of confussion. that's the danger of over-using acronyms i guess.
so yes, I have been talking about the requirements of a high freq trader but i have also been considering the budget of a typical retail guy, whuch was highlighted in capitals in the thread title after all.
maybe the OP has a big budget, but it is unlikely if he is retail. if not, high freq (let alone ultra-high freq) trading models will be (near) impossible to implement.
FWIW, we keep our machines locally because we run grey box rather than black box, we are always tweaking the code and we are trying to keep costs under control anyway (small desk right now). plus, of course, our strat doesn't need particularly low latency.
we have connected to a major IB because we trade multiple markets in US and Europe and need a provider directly connected to al of them.
for true high freq strategies with a budget for hosting servers and low latency price feeds, I agree with your comments across the board.
agreed
see also TorcFinancials aka tradespeed