Advice on how I should Raise Trading Capital?

[Concinnity]

If you really don't want to give up yet. Just keep in mind you have a way to put your risk of failure under $170 and potentially under $100 or even under $70.00 in some cases instead of jumping right back into using your own capital or worst yet using money from a loan or additional people which just compounds the potential problems. If that isn't appealing to you, you may want to seriously consider that you're stuck on wanting to accelerate your plans because you either feel you deserve it and/or feel like you have the skill to make tons of money. I can tell you in a lot of cases trying to accelerate things prematurely has a high probability to end in the same way your first venture did, with losing a large portion of your capital.

This doesn't have to be hard. Only one thing matters, can you trade at a high level consistently or not? That is the only question here. If the answer is Yes almost any path you take has high chance of ending in success. But what genuine and honest performance do you have that actually tells yourself you can do this consistently? objectively? It's why it makes no sense to me why you wouldn't take the path with the least risk and slows things down a little, particularly after what you just went through. Do the option with the least risk, pass the test and than get a withdrawal out of the account. Now you at least have a small objective measure that you can trade, if nothing else. You can try several attempts and even if you end up spending $500.00 on test and 2 months of your time. At least you know your risk each time you're going in and now you will know if you need to get a job and back off for a while or if it makes sense to keep pursing trading.

 

[SimpleMeLike]

Long story short...my education as a trader has cost me ~$140k...

Hello zghorner,

Let get back to business man, forget all this other stuff you wrote.

Let me give you some game man. Do NOT lose money.

There is no way on this planet, you should be losing -$140,000 in this trading business. That is enough money to buy land or dollar cost average in SP500 index and you would have done better than day traders.

You need to make a plan not to lose money my friend. Trading is business man and you have a woman and kids. Be a man and keep money for your family. No woman wants no man that loses money like this.

Paper trade until you make double your account 3-5 times and develop a 1 year track record.

Yes, paper trade for 1 -2 years until you are profitable consistently. Do not listen to people saying paper trading is a waste time. Losing money is a waste of time.

Then go live with an account balance of $1000-$3000 in the ES man. Come on man, you do not need suffer big losses like that. Do not let noone fool you thinking you need $XX,XXX to day trade. They lying to you man. Prove to yourself you can trade like a man, and do not lose. PERIOD. If losing money month to month, you can not trade. PERIOD. Stay in SIM/Paper. PERIOD.

Us men need our money.

This is a business first. I will NEVER in my life lose money year to year trading manually. Only a fool does this.

 

[wmwmw]

Honesty is everything as the truth is all that matters...so here is some brutal, embarrassing honesty:

Long story short...my education as a trader has cost me ~$140k...And I absolutely do not have anymore to lose. My primary choice for gambling was long options believing that "it has to happen"...but it never did and I absolutely deserved to learn that lesson. If it wasn't for options I would have still lost the same amount of money...the problem was obviously me as the driver, not the trading vehicle.

After a 6 month break to really reflect on my failures I decided to get away from options and focus on futures (for a number of reasons not relevant to this thread). I've always been intimidated/afraid of futures trading but drawn to them for whatever reason. After some success paper trading I decided to go live trading micros...actually doing the things you are supposed to do...and I am profitable.

Although this thread is slightly premature based on my skills...the time is coming and I should probably get started with raising capital sooner rather than later.

Looking for some genuine advice on what to do here. I am 37 yo male, I do not have a job and really really do not want to go back to the work place, (haven't worked since 2018). I am really fortunate in that I own a decent house and a profitable small business with zero debt...but my lifestyle has to be extremely frugal due to very low income. Too frugal in fact.

So where would you look for trading capital in this situation? I have about $25k in an IRA I could cash out, probably another $20k in physical goods I could let go of with reluctance...but that's about it.

- Job is most obvious choice, unfortunately.
- Prop firm worth it? would I have to trade their specific way? would they even be interested?
- Take out a loan? If I am profitable maybe it would be worth taking out a cash loan of some sort.

Just looking for some advice,

thanks ET.

I do not see you have been proved to be a consistent winner.
Are you consistently profitable for more than 3 years?
If not, then you can't make the conclusion.

 

[savoir]

Hello zghorner,

Let get back to business man, forget all this other stuff you wrote.

Let me give you some game man. Do NOT lose money.

There is no way on this planet, you should be losing -$140,000 in this trading business. That is enough money to buy land or dollar cost average in SP500 index and you would have done better than day traders.

You need to make a plan not to lose money my friend. Trading is business man and you have a woman and kids. Be a man and keep money for your family. No woman wants no man that loses money like this.

Paper trade until you make double your account 3-5 times and develop a 1 year track record.

Yes, paper trade for 1 -2 years until you are profitable consistently. Do not listen to people saying paper trading is a waste time. Losing money is a waste of time.

Then go live with an account balance of $1000-$3000 in the ES man. Come on man, you do not need suffer big losses like that. Do not let noone fool you thinking you need $XX,XXX to day trade. They lying to you man. Prove to yourself you can trade like a man, and do not lose. PERIOD. If losing money month to month, you can not trade. PERIOD. Stay in SIM/Paper. PERIOD.

Us men need our money.

This is a business first. I will NEVER in my life lose money year to year trading manually. Only a fool does this.

SimpleMeLike,

The amount of the losses is relative. He lost $140K because he had $140K. If he had only $14K he would have lost only $14K. This is why I say that being young and broke is the best situation to be in when learning on your own. You get the same painful lessons for less buck.

Now it used to be that it took a lot more money to get into the game. That’s no longer the case. The micro-sized contract is the answer to every piker’s wet dream.

So with the game being so cheap to play, why would anyone plan to waste years on sim?

Brother, you haven’t figured out what the game is that you are playing. Go read the Secret of the Gamboni in Trader Vic’s first book. Maybe something will click.

 

[margin_gamble]

Honesty is everything as the truth is all that matters...so here is some brutal, embarrassing honesty:

Long story short...my education as a trader has cost me ~$140k...And I absolutely do not have anymore to lose. My primary choice for gambling was long options believing that "it has to happen"...but it never did and I absolutely deserved to learn that lesson. If it wasn't for options I would have still lost the same amount of money...the problem was obviously me as the driver, not the trading vehicle.

After a 6 month break to really reflect on my failures I decided to get away from options and focus on futures (for a number of reasons not relevant to this thread). I've always been intimidated/afraid of futures trading but drawn to them for whatever reason. After some success paper trading I decided to go live trading micros...actually doing the things you are supposed to do...and I am profitable.

Although this thread is slightly premature based on my skills...the time is coming and I should probably get started with raising capital sooner rather than later.

Looking for some genuine advice on what to do here. I am 37 yo male, I do not have a job and really really do not want to go back to the work place, (haven't worked since 2018). I am really fortunate in that I own a decent house and a profitable small business with zero debt...but my lifestyle has to be extremely frugal due to very low income. Too frugal in fact.

So where would you look for trading capital in this situation? I have about $25k in an IRA I could cash out, probably another $20k in physical goods I could let go of with reluctance...but that's about it.

- Job is most obvious choice, unfortunately.
- Prop firm worth it? would I have to trade their specific way? would they even be interested?
- Take out a loan? If I am profitable maybe it would be worth taking out a cash loan of some sort.

Just looking for some advice,

thanks ET.

The darkest hour is just before dawn.

That is not the time to quit. Why is this so? Because at Dawn, the Physical Universe will have taken note that you are still standing. Then and only then can you dig deep within you and pull out your most native EDGE of EDGES, one that each and every one of us was given at birth. It takes courage to use this EDGE of EDGES but those who do will always end up a winner. Remember that this EDGE is a Native Edge, its is as natural as Nature itself.

Why is this EDGE of EDGES so powerful? Because the Physical Universe has no defense against the persistent MAN. Sooner than later it will throw open the floodgates of wherewithal and drown you in success.


Your best trading still resides deep within you. It has reserves of power than ain't never been tapped - yet.

Follow these rules to help you get to your EDGE of EDGES:

Keep your own counsel and be your own advisor

 

[Sprout]

The darkest hour is just before dawn.

That is not the time to quit. Why is this so? Because at Dawn, the Physical Universe will have taken note that you are still standing. Then and only then can you dig deep within you and pull out your most native EDGE of EDGES, one that each and every one of us was given at birth. It takes courage to use this EDGE of EDGES but those who do will always end up a winner. Remember that this EDGE is a Native Edge, its is as natural as Nature itself.

Why is this EDGE of EDGES so powerful? Because the Physical Universe has no defense against the persistent MAN. Sooner than later it will throw open the floodgates of wherewithal and drown you in success.


Your best trading still resides deep within you. It has reserves of power than ain't never been tapped - yet.

Follow these rules to help you get to your EDGE of EDGES:

Keep your own counsel and be your own advisor

https://twitter.com/x/status/1536697370813014016

Lot’s of great ideas in this thread and they are more applicable to the younger self of the poster.

You have enough capital if your method is sound. Start booking trades and grow it. If it’s not growing then your method is not sound.

 

[margin_gamble]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1536697370813014016

Lot’s of great ideas in this thread and they are more applicable to the younger self of the poster.

You have enough capital if your method is sound. Start booking trades and grow it. If it’s not growing then your method is not sound.

Yes ....... but ................ let's not forget Warren and yours truly .............. sheesh, both in the same phrase? Yes.


You have enough capital if you can do the trades you normally do and have enough to stand by and can have plenty of wiggle room to give positions rooms to breathe ...........

but where the yuge = yooooge Capital comes in is for the Warren/MG's Big SWING

This is that once in a while yuge shot into the Heavens - I would say it averages twice per year in my case. This is where you really let it rip and juice it to the hilt and trail it 5% under the recent wave low. This is what I foresaw when I first strated trading. It takes courage and kahunas but mostly it takes yuge Capital, waaaay over what is normally needed in trading.

I learned this directly from Warren in my formative years.

 

[zghorner]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1536697370813014016

Lot’s of great ideas in this thread and they are more applicable to the younger self of the poster.

You have enough capital if your method is sound. Start booking trades and grow it. If it’s not growing then your method is not sound.

Agree, this is the plan.

 

[TheDawn]

I bet I'm not wrong about this....
You could have $5M in the bank and have the family members you (most admirably) care so much about completely taken care of... and you would still trade.

Deep down, it's the game you love, it's not the money.

And there's nothing wrong with that, it doesn't make you a "gambler" despite what some here have said.
I'm the same way. In my case however, I do love to gamble. I'm not ashamed of that, it is what it is.

Imagine a skilled and seasoned card counter that sits down at a black-jack table with $5000 for 8 hours, exercises incredible discipline in the bets and adheres to all his rules. At the end of the 8 hours he has $10K in front of him and it was easy, because he knows what he knows.

Now, imagine that same card counter getting up from the table, and as he's walking out of the casino, stopping at the roulette table and throwing $1000 on a single number bet for the 35:1 payout... and doing it a few times. Stupid right?

I think you can be that card counter and build your pot. Despite what others here have said, there's no way you didn't learn a thing or two losing that $140K. You've paid your dues, and you can get there now. But if there's one piece of advice I can offer in addition to all the other great advice you've read in this thread... always walk straight out. Build slowly, and never stop at that table. It's the only way you'll get there.

Well there is nothing wrong with stopping at that roulette table if he has a winning strategy for playing roulette. The problem is not whether to stop at that table or not. The problem is whether you have a strategy that allows you to win at that table. The goal of trading is not trading itself. It's to make money doing it. If you can't make money trading but you can actually make money doing your day job then you should work at a stable day job. There is no shame in that. I think trading is way too glorified in the media and everybody thinks if you can trade you are god or something without realizing what traders truly go through just to earn a fraction of what day jobbers earn easily by just showing up at the workplace (nowadays you won't even need to leave your house) and chatting with their colleagues.

 

[TheDawn]

thank you very much for that comment.

And you're right...I am going to trade because I love trading, there is no "i've made it so now I can retire to the exotic beach" amount for me. I started trading physical goods at 16 years old quite literally buying low and selling high (with the secret ingredients being elbow grease and marketing+communication skills).

So maybe this is what you need to do. Instead of engaging in financial trading, you need to build a business buying and selling physical goods, nowadays maybe online. I have heard many successful stories of people who have built very lucrative online businesses using themselves to market what they have bought from product manufacturers and then selling them at wholesale price or at least lower than retail store prices because they don't have much overhead.

Financial trading is very different from trading in physical goods. It doesn't have inventory or clientele to worry about but you are not working with something concrete either so there is very little that you can build upon I find. Everything is decided in one shot. You either win it or you don't.