Advice on how I should Raise Trading Capital?

zghorner said:
Honesty is everything as the truth is all that matters...so here is some brutal, embarrassing honesty:

Long story short...my education as a trader has cost me ~$140k...And I absolutely do not have anymore to lose. My primary choice for gambling was long options believing that "it has to happen"...but it never did and I absolutely deserved to learn that lesson. If it wasn't for options I would have still lost the same amount of money...the problem was obviously me as the driver, not the trading vehicle.

After a 6 month break to really reflect on my failures I decided to get away from options and focus on futures (for a number of reasons not relevant to this thread). I've always been intimidated/afraid of futures trading but drawn to them for whatever reason. After some success paper trading I decided to go live trading micros...actually doing the things you are supposed to do...and I am profitable.

Although this thread is slightly premature based on my skills...the time is coming and I should probably get started with raising capital sooner rather than later.

Looking for some genuine advice on what to do here. I am 37 yo male, I do not have a job and really really do not want to go back to the work place, (haven't worked since 2018). I am really fortunate in that I own a decent house and a profitable small business with zero debt...but my lifestyle has to be extremely frugal due to very low income. Too frugal in fact.

So where would you look for trading capital in this situation? I have about $25k in an IRA I could cash out, probably another $20k in physical goods I could let go of with reluctance...but that's about it.

- Job is most obvious choice, unfortunately.
- Prop firm worth it? would I have to trade their specific way? would they even be interested?
- Take out a loan? If I am profitable maybe it would be worth taking out a cash loan of some sort.

Just looking for some advice,

thanks ET.
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I am sure going to cause a s*** storm here by saying this, seems people hate the prop firm companies. But honestly the reputable ones do pay out. I've heard of like one story of someone not getting paid out and the companies case was pretty strong as to why they did not.

Particularly if you're trading micro's. If you have really have skill it's possible to make $100-$200 on average trading 1 micro.

The companies with the best and fastest pay outs are Earn2Trade (Taking the Trader Career Path) and Uprofit. However, APEX runs some good sales sometimes and they aren't a terrible choice either, particularly if you can pick it up for cheap. UPROFIT has a 40% off sale right now as well all this month.

Today I made $325.00 Trading mainly 1 micro MNQ. Although I did "cheat" once and average down. But most of my trades were straight up 1 micro. I've been paid out by UPROFIT before, so I can verify they do pay and they are very fast on payment.

You can also eventually do copy trading with some of the companies. Like have multiple accounts trade 1 micro across 2,3 or 4 acc's etc so essentially you're not placing any more risk on an individual account, but increasing your earnings.

Some of the accounts you start out with relatively low amount of capital to trade with, but for example some account's give you $2,500.00 I know that doesn't sound like a lot, but with 1 MNQ that gives you like 1,250 points of risk (minus whatever commissions obviously). If you can't be profitable with 1,250 points of risk you likely have no edge or it is very weak.

If you want to pursue this happy to have a voice conversation with you, to explain all the rules options and etc. Yes, the companies do make their money off of people failing, but who cares? most people fail in trading anyways. The bottom line is if you have a a real edge and can follow their rules the reputable ones do pay out.
 
zghorner said:
point taken, thanks.
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And I didn't even mean it in a condescending manner. I truly feel that, after losing 140k, if you can take 6k and turn it into 12k, that experience will be not just rewarding, but eye opening. Until you can do this yourself, I just don't think having access to more capital will help. And once you do this, you probably won't even need access to more capital.

The only reason people think you need more capital is because they think 10% is good, and it is, for investing. So clearly you need 1 million to earn 100k to live off of.

The fact that you turned your nose down on ES in favor of more volatile instruments like GC or CL is worrisome. But who cares what I think. You just have to convince yourself. Honestly, you probably only need a week or two to figure out if you truly have what it takes. If day trading, after 1 week, say 20-50 trades, it should be quite clear if you will make it or not.
 
NoahA said:
And I didn't even mean it in a condescending manner. I truly feel that, after losing 140k, if you can take 6k and turn it into 12k, that experience will be not just rewarding, but eye opening. Until you can do this yourself, I just don't think having access to more capital will help. And once you do this, you probably won't even need access to more capital.

The only reason people think you need more capital is because they think 10% is good, and it is, for investing. So clearly you need 1 million to earn 100k to live off of.

The fact that you turned your nose down on ES in favor of more volatile instruments like GC or CL is worrisome. But who cares what I think. You just have to convince yourself. Honestly, you probably only need a week or two to figure out if you truly have what it takes. If day trading, after 1 week, say 20-50 trades, it should be quite clear if you will make it or not.
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i didn't take offense...id say you are being more than reasonable and I appreciate that and agree with you...Im just hungry for it lol.

And as to ES vs CL or GC...I don't know what it is but I just do better in the others. Major respect to those of you who successfully trade ES but I just tend to get chopped out. My timing just works out much better on the other two. Ill keep working on it.
 
deaddog said:
After spending 140k on your tuition options trading why are you giving up?
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%%
Good question;
good common sense+ wrong risk reward for buying options.......................................
ZGhorner;
LArry benedict is selling options course, but no thanks, too much like gambling or lotto; but his forecast for 2022 market is close down. Amen on his bear forecast.
I as a youngster i bought bootleg[untaxed] Segrams #7 whisky from a bootlegger; but now i only listen to the T Tritt Song;
.......................................have one more\
The Whisky Aint Workin' Anymore\ from the Album The Whisky[options] Ain't Workin Anymore.
Sell some junk of[$18,000 to 22,777] yours like Dave Ramsey says. As soon as possible.
I dont do penny stocks+ fore sure dont do derivitives like ES risk all the time;
but sometimes SPYG or SPY, never ES anymore, since i use a time stop for trading some:caution::caution:
I do pick up some cash pennies if i see any , thats an extra bit per month or year.
$140 ,000 is about right for a traders education .I cut a loss on SPXL lately;
good thing it was start position, counter trends can be abit like gambling unless its investing:caution:
 
zghorner said:
all true, I admit that this thread my be putting the cart in front of the horse a bit but started it anyway just to satisfy my curiosity. trading since June 2019.
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I personally don't recommend that you rely on others. That will only mess with your head. Instead, start out small (1 MES contract) and slowly build your portfolio. If your strategy is profitable, as you say it is, this shouldn't be a problem.
 
Nothing wrong with 1 MES. In this market, you should be able to scale quickly.

A smooth upward equity curve, i.e., consistent profitability, over a decent time period, is your goal.

Get room renters for a year or so and suffer loss of privacy, to remind you why you are working hard on trading.
 
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