Advice for an Old Man’s Son

[ETJ]

Lots of stories and lots of statistics and I urge you not to benchmark to the folks on this site.
Chicago, New York(area) and San Francisco still have thousands of folks trading. Yes, the floors changed and electronics and narrowed spreads changed everything, but volumes are still 5 or 10X of what they were before electronic trading. Traders who lived off the inefficient markets that preceded going electronic evolved or left the industry. ETFs developed a thriving business in the current environment. PE/VC firms and Family Offices now have trading desks.
There has always been an opportunity for smart and clever traders. Not everyone starts out at the top. Ken Griffeth - the wealthies resident of Illinois - started out doing convert arb. from his dorm room. Yes, he went to a great school and had good starting capital, but at some point it became his being smart and bold. Citadel probably has 70 - 80 open positions worldwide. Some people start as interns, answer the phone or make the coffee.

 

[Epicurus]

I am not a trader. Just a grizzled old guy looking to help my son get a shot at being like you guys.

He just turned 27 and seeing the writing on the company wall, he told me had to go independent and was reading everything he can get and putting away his cash to trade and invest. Even selling his house, downsizing, cutting expense to the bone. Hard worker. Computer savvy. Good kid, just unfortunately born on the wrong side of the tracks.

My question for those of you that remember starting with nothing:

If you had one piece of advice or route to try that would help get a working toenail in this game, what would it be?

Thank you!

OldDad

Earning an income outside of trading whilst he learns is essential. Start as a medium term investor as its easier to earn something from the market. Study and papertrade after hours until he can prove he has a capacity to earn from trading, when he could go part-time. Very few will be able to complete the jouney to fund themselves full time from trading and it will take years of study if at all.
Dont believe the fantasy and bullshit put about of traders earning millions that is designed to sucker people into the markets. Prove you can do it first before putting your savings on the line.

 

[Wheezooo]

Tell him to watch this video. If he can learn what these guys do, how they think, the words and language they use, their ideas, and read their stories he will know how traders think.

This is the real problem with most of the traders today (Dozu888's 99%). They never bothered to learn what actual traders do.

They spend all their time trying to figure it out on their own, and yet end up knowing less than the guys that sat in this room for a couple hours with a real CBOT local. Time has passed but it's the same game it's always been. Tell him I said good luck!

p.s. thanks ETJ for posting this vid

Holy shit. That's fucking gold. I saw it and first thought, you have to be fucking kidding me, I'm not going to watch some two hour video. Clicked in at 9:45 just to hear a few minutes, and hear comments about trading in the bottom of the pit, and where to stand... Just great shit. Going to watch the rest tonight and see if he says what would happen to you if you dared tried standing in someones spot...

Sure, most of these guys never made it out of the pits, but the converse is, most of the guys today wouldn't have made it 5 seconds in the pits.

-Thanks

 

[Wheezooo]

...started out doing convert arb. from his dorm room. Yes, he went to a great school... but at some point it became his being smart and bold.

That's all I saw when I ready your post. Not saying you can't do it starting at 27. But you are kinda in the position of Sisyphus, standing at the bottom of the hill, saying to yourself for the first time, 'hey, let me see if I could push this rock up the hill.'

I think I was 12 or 13 when I traded my first option. Lost, but proud to say I came in from the buy side.

Edit: I see you were the one responsible for posting this. Thanks. Low puke-points.. the hands, not able to stop walking... this is just gold, absolute gold.

 

[beginner66]

its good that a father like yourself cares so much about his son. well done.
This is a tough game, very tough..
many posters have said on here it will take many 1000's of hrs to get a working method with a real edge.
If your son could find a paying job then please tell take this instead. he can still study out of working hrs. Why ? he will need to burn a lot of hrs...mainly wasted..he will need his "passion" if it is trading to be tested again and again... he will need the abilities to program, test, analyse and imagine things that are not currently visible to most traders eyes.
Please sir dont tell him to quit it all ie sell everything to just focus on trading. you need to remember this a fantasy many have yet very few achieve...it put it much less than 1% of people who try this seriously make it.
Having said that there are a limited few who can make a living and a couple who make a very good living.
So if you love your son like i think you do then at 27 years the world is his oyster still. he is very young and needs someone to point out the facts with trading and the bigger picture to life. Best of luck to you both.
best
John

 

[nooby_mcnoob]

I am not a trader. Just a grizzled old guy looking to help my son get a shot at being like you guys.

He just turned 27 and seeing the writing on the company wall, he told me had to go independent and was reading everything he can get and putting away his cash to trade and invest. Even selling his house, downsizing, cutting expense to the bone. Hard worker. Computer savvy. Good kid, just unfortunately born on the wrong side of the tracks.

My question for those of you that remember starting with nothing:

If you had one piece of advice or route to try that would help get a working toenail in this game, what would it be?

Thank you!

OldDad

I second the other guy saying your son needs to wring the corporate money tree for as long as possible and have a backup plan.

The reality is that being born on the wrong side of the tracks often gives you a constant feeling of imminent doom. This rarely materializes unless you force it (most people from the wrong side are a self fulfilling prophecy).

Reality is that your son is unlikely to be fired or downsized unless he remains stagnant in his career development. So while the draw to be independent is valid the truth is that he will accomplish a lot more in the corporate world.

But tell him to be the best at whatever he does not to settle for good enough and he will be at the top of his game for life.

Good luck.

 

[nooby_mcnoob]

By the way, I say this from experience. One of my very good professional acquaintances was an incredibly successful consultant (magnitudes more than me, he was an author, sought after speaker, etc) and tells me he found way easier financial success inside the technical industrial complex. Like millions with an s per year. The kicker is that he was independent from day one for exactly the same mental reasons as I stated earlier (imminent doom). There's a lot of money out there waiting to be picked.

 

[drcruz]

ADVICE - get a paying job while learning

From another thread...

After blowing up 4 accounts the best advice I've got (it took decades for this to sink in and 2019 is my first profitable trading year):
- Don't risk more than 1 to 2 percent of you account on anyone position - especially while you are learning
- Learn to take a loss
- I would get your portfolio house in order first - buy and hold, dollar cost average, rebalance at least once a year (do a search for "Warren Buffett SP500")
- Learn to trade using only a fraction of your portfolio (10 to 20 percent)
- 3 to 5 years of hard work before getting to profitability is very realistic number

 

[test_user]

Trade long term, keep the day job. There is no reason to day trade.

 

[smallfil]

Watch Robert Kiyosaki videos. It is far easier to make monies starting a business providing you with passive income. What is passive income? Passive income as the name implies, just rolls in even if you are asleep, goofing around, watching TV, etc. Add to that the tax advantages and you see why that is the best way to go. Look at Kylie Jenner, she is a billionaire and she is only in her 20s? Or Jessica Simpson? Numerous ways to get passive income. One is rental property which has a positive cash flow. Another is selling stuff to others wholesale. Look at cosmetics, women buy cosmetics over and over again. Kylie Jenner just sold 51% of her Kylie cosmetics to company COTY for $600 million. Trading is a tough business to be in.