Exactly, be an asshole, say sorry to Jesus, conscience absolved, guilt removed, feel better, no pain, "oh lets do it again because Jesus will forgive me, besides, God is on my side, He's right, I have immunity, plus when I'm naughty I have a double win, I get to fuck people over and then get let off".
Advantages & Disadvantages of Religion
- Thread starter themickey
- Start date
As a christian, when one sins, it is easily brushed off "oh, I'm alright, I'm covered by the blood of the lamb".
A non christian/non religous: When one sins (do stupid things in life which one regrets) the result is one looks back and says "dammit, what an idiot I was, I need to improve and not repeat that stupid way of life". Self accountability!
There is no cop-out bs Jesus to continually let you off the hook.
A non christian/non religous: When one sins (do stupid things in life which one regrets) the result is one looks back and says "dammit, what an idiot I was, I need to improve and not repeat that stupid way of life". Self accountability!
There is no cop-out bs Jesus to continually let you off the hook.
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With 'Jesus'/religion, the way one conducts their life, they attempt to please jesus, conform and do the right thing for someone else. That is, conduct, please, conform to something external.
Without religion, one hopefully attempts at self improvement for themselves, that is, be a better citizen, be stronger and improve because they want to, not because someone else wants them to.
So the onus is on oneself, to improve for oneself, it's internal, not external like religion.
One is entirely accountable to themselves, none of the nonsense of "doing it for you".
When a non believer does something for someone else, it's because they want to, not because its an obligation of a religous law or obligation of guilt ie, " I'm doing this for you because I know it will make Jesus happy".
Religion: "I need to do the right thing, it helps me get to heaven".
Big difference in approaches.
Without religion, one hopefully attempts at self improvement for themselves, that is, be a better citizen, be stronger and improve because they want to, not because someone else wants them to.
So the onus is on oneself, to improve for oneself, it's internal, not external like religion.
One is entirely accountable to themselves, none of the nonsense of "doing it for you".
When a non believer does something for someone else, it's because they want to, not because its an obligation of a religous law or obligation of guilt ie, " I'm doing this for you because I know it will make Jesus happy".
Religion: "I need to do the right thing, it helps me get to heaven".
Big difference in approaches.
Atheist's have never helped anyone, anywhere for anything whatsoever.
They compromise the most selfish people on the planet.
They are jealous that religious people help others so much that they cringe in horror.
They compromise the most selfish people on the planet.
They are jealous that religious people help others so much that they cringe in horror.
EVERYTHING HERE IS COMPLETELY OPPOSITE TO THE BIBLICAL MESSAGE.
"say sorry to Jesus, conscience absolved, guilt removed, feel better, no pain"
Saying sorry doesn't remove guilt. Saying sorry, in any relationship, might be the start to a reconciliation between offended parties, but doesn't always.
I'm likely about done with reading and writing in the religious section. If I read here then it bothers me to see the misunderstandings written about what the Bible teaches and then I feel like responding because I'm bothered by it. There is a time to just let others go their own way and think what they want to think, at least I tried to show what I believe to be the truth.
So, this maybe be one of my last posts, I'm undecided at the moment.
My understanding of what Scripture teaches leads me to believe that God was never morally obligated to provide us with a way of escape from the judgment of our sins.
God's words to Adam were:
And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” Genesis 2:16, 17
God is worthy of worship and obedience because He is God. We were created in a likeness to Him, but we are His creation. People can be creative but we cannot create out of nothing. One thing that is unique to God alone is that He created the universe by speaking. Because He is our Creator He sets the rules.
By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
Hebrews 11:3 ESV
Hebrews 11:3 ESV
In giving the command to Adam not to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil there was only the consequence mentioned for disobedience, not any hope mentioned.
God does not owe anyone deliverance from their choices to sin.
God does NOT blame Himself for our disobedience or for judging us. People want to blame God for both. Some will even say that God created us sinful, but God said that all that He created was "very good" when He finished creating it.
God is our Creator and the One who has the right to set the rules and make a contract. We broke the "contract." Nothing in the "contract" said that we could expect mercy or pardon if the terms were broken. We were promised death for disobedience--remember that Adam and Eve were not already biased to sin, but could make a free and good moral choice to do right. They were created "good." There was nothing about how God created Adam and Eve that would give them anything other than their own choice to blame for their disobedience. Satan did have a part, but Adam and Eve both exercised free choice when they chose to steal and disobey God. Scriptures teach that there was a spiritual death that occurred the moment of the disobedience, a physical death, and an eternal death. "Dying you shall surely die" is the literal translation of Genesis 2:17. (See
https://answersingenesis.org/death-before-sin/genesis-2-17-you-shall-surely-die/)
I can't remember every hearing someone mock a hero who gave his or her life to save another.
Yet I read all the time on Elite Trader posts that mock Jesus or that He suffered in order to be able to save us from an eternity in hell.
Even if a person doesn't like the personal implications of a God who Judges yet offers pardon, why do people mock the most heart-touching of all acts: giving one's self for another, when it is God who is the Hero?
10 People Who Sacrificed Their Lives To Save Others
https://listverse.com/2019/06/29/10-people-who-sacrificed-their-lives-to-save-others/
The article above describes the heroic acts of 10 people. Maybe some on Elite Trader would get a kick out of mocking them too, but I think that it is only Jesus and His loving sacrifice that they like to trample on.
The forgiveness offered through Jesus and what He did on the cross and by His resurrection is not owed to us. God would have been just to let ALL of us continue in our sinful condition and judge us according to His righteous standards.
It is God's love for us and desire for a restored relationship with us that led Him to make a way where the judgment for our sin ("when you eat from it you will certainly die") was placed upon Another in such a way that God could offer forgiveness.
In the post quoted at the top from @themickey, there is mockery of God's kindness in making a provision to offer pardon to sinners. This provision meant that God Himself would step in and satisfy the "dying you shall surely die" condition of the contract that was broken.
"No greater love has anyone than this, to lay down one's life for His friends." Only Jesus laid down His life for His enemies, so that He could turn His enemies into His friends.
It is hard for me to read mockery of the One who gave His all for me.
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Yes but, never mind what the bible says, it's how humans behave in practice.
Christians try and please an external being, so its bound to fail as a method.
One cannot live all their life trying to please someone. That's called slavery, bondage.
Non believers don't have those rules unless in the military where you are ordered about and expected to conform.
Upright non believers WANT TO improve by themselves because they know it has the best outcome.
Adam sinned by disobeying, he was told not to but he did anyhow, obviously him and God didn't get along very well because Adam didn't care for God.
If Adam never had God but knew if he ate the fruit he'd get sick, he'd be an idiot to eat.
Normally parents guide their children so a child behaves, Adam had no respect for God, wtf happened there? God a lousy parent?
That's because christianity is unbelievable, virgin birth, raised from dead, walking on water, casting out demons, Noahs Ark, swallowed by a whale, splitting a sea in half, turning water into wine.....
Funny how no miracles these days, the only miracle is how many churches, pastors, priests run scams.
Just need look at US evangelical movement supporting Trump who would be the most dodgy president in history.
So me thinks hero Jesus requires no respect because everywhere I look is scam.
If I see church scams balanced by miracles, maybe I would think different, but I see scams only, miracles are MIA.
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Normally parents guide their children so a child behaves, Adam had no respect for God, wtf happened there? God a lousy parent?
You're thinking in terms of a young child and his or her parent and also thinking in terms of human to human context and that doesn't fit with what happened. Perhaps a better similarity would be to say what should a parent do if their adult son (or daughter) made a deliberate and conscious decision to no longer be a part of the family. We would understand that scenario much easier. I think most people would agree that should an adult child disown their parents that they are not likely to receive an inheritance.
If God's created creature decides to turn away from God, being fully aware that death was the consequence, that creature should expect death will happen.
Was God wrong to make death the judgment for rebellion?
Look at the devastating effects sin has had on the world. By turning from the One who is the Only Good, we became other than good.
Shouldn't Good hate evil? Shouldn't a just judge punish crime?
There should be no place for evil in a kingdom of pure Goodness.
We are not the ones who determine our Creator's characteristics. I AM THAT I AM is who He is and we can do nothing to change that. But I am personally glad that God is good and will not tolerate evil in His kingdom. I am also glad that He is a King who desires relationships with those in His kingdom.
The problem lies with us, that we choose to continue in rebellion to God.
Upon that cross of Jesus
my eye at times can see
the very dying form of one
who suffered there for me;
and from my broken heart, with tears,
two wonders I confess:
the wonders of his glorious love,
and my unworthiness.
https://www.music-ministry.org/hymns/beneath-the-cross-of-jesus/
my eye at times can see
the very dying form of one
who suffered there for me;
and from my broken heart, with tears,
two wonders I confess:
the wonders of his glorious love,
and my unworthiness.
https://www.music-ministry.org/hymns/beneath-the-cross-of-jesus/