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Give him a break...
A program made by a good and experienced programmer that is delivered in 10 days are equivanlent to 100 days of a non-experienced cheap programmer.
Also, all the bugs and fixes will be more frustrating...
Eventually, it's cheaper to go for an experienced but expensive programmer...
This is from a programmer's point... andrasnm... can you even program in C++ or even Java??? or have done some professional programming?
Other than that...
programmer... get a job...
A program made by a good and experienced programmer that is delivered in 10 days are equivanlent to 100 days of a non-experienced cheap programmer.
Also, all the bugs and fixes will be more frustrating...
Eventually, it's cheaper to go for an experienced but expensive programmer...
This is from a programmer's point... andrasnm... can you even program in C++ or even Java??? or have done some professional programming?
Other than that...
programmer... get a job...
I have been in IT...mainly trading desk support and quant work...
VB is adequate and Java is what I drink in the morning albeit my last contract was with Java...hm...so cheap is not always better?
Tell that to the US Industries....I figure If you can't beat them - join them....
I currently have a contractor in Idaho doing some prototype work for me and I must say next time I'll go to India.
VB is adequate and Java is what I drink in the morning albeit my last contract was with Java...hm...so cheap is not always better?
Tell that to the US Industries....I figure If you can't beat them - join them....
I currently have a contractor in Idaho doing some prototype work for me and I must say next time I'll go to India.
We are all aware that overseas programmers work for lower rates. Most overseas workers do, regardless of occupation. This completely misses the point.
Andrasnm states: "There are lot of programmers out there who can do the same and charge $7-10 per hour."
Really? Let's concentrate on the key phrase of that sentence: "do the same".
After speaking with Neal Thomas about a small project, I am confident that "do the same" includes the following:
1) Speak English without aid of an interpreter.
2) Have experience and knowledge of US-based datafeeds.
3) Be available by simply making a continental-US phone call.(essentially free for most of us).
4) Work in a time zone within +/- 3 hours of my own.
5) Be accessible (and accountable) after the job is completed.
Suddenly it's apparent that overseas programmers don't even approach "do the same", and indeed come up short in several important areas.
Anyone who thinks these are not important practical considerations has never actually managed a programming project.
The "same" implies too much I agree. I don't know what our poster does and how long has he been doing it. High prized US programmers are all unemployed for many reasons. and I don't talk hot air. It is what I do! I had started at IBM in Budapest in 1975...
Quality in the US is not only problematic at Ford and Chrysler but at IBM and Microsoft as well. After Y2K SCARE IS passed over a much of the US industry saw through the BS we(IT) were feeding them for 40 years about "productivity" and the magic of the desktop world. It is all crap!
From B of A to MSFT all have HUGE plants in India and that's where the work stays...why because they work for $7 hour and they are happy to do so...so these facts contradict your competitiveness ideal - they have beaten the US programmer like Toyota has beaten GM. and like it or not that is a fact.
Quality in the US is not only problematic at Ford and Chrysler but at IBM and Microsoft as well. After Y2K SCARE IS passed over a much of the US industry saw through the BS we(IT) were feeding them for 40 years about "productivity" and the magic of the desktop world. It is all crap!
From B of A to MSFT all have HUGE plants in India and that's where the work stays...why because they work for $7 hour and they are happy to do so...so these facts contradict your competitiveness ideal - they have beaten the US programmer like Toyota has beaten GM. and like it or not that is a fact.
I don't disagree with anything in your last post... it's all a matter of scale.
Here's an analogy: If you're building a factory to build thousands of refrigerators, you'll probably make more profit building it in China.
But when your Chinese-made refrigerator needs service, you call the local repair technician and pay his rates. If you tell him that Chinese refrigeration technicians work for $10/month, he'll probably suggest you Fed-ex you refrigerator to Shanghai for repairs.
Why the long series of posts? It just bothers me that a man (Neal Thomas) comes onto this board. Not the usual nothing-to-offer useless drivel poster, but a person of substance who has something real to offer. Simply, a man who can DO something that some of us NEED DONE.
(This is generally referred to as a SERVICE... and in a capitalist system is usually considered a good thing).
So how do the high minds at ET respond? One puts him down... saying that others do the same thing for 7-10/hr (a laughable assertion).
Another confirms the availability of low-wage programmers, by mentioning overseas workers (completely irrelevant and impractical, given the scale of project that Neal Thomas is seeking).
And all this is in response to someone who is advertising the availability of something that some of us WANT AND NEED. What is the point?
What are you folks trying to accomplish?
Is there NOTHING that anyone can say on this board that won't inspire a handfool (misspelling intentional) of people to put it down?
Here's an analogy: If you're building a factory to build thousands of refrigerators, you'll probably make more profit building it in China.
But when your Chinese-made refrigerator needs service, you call the local repair technician and pay his rates. If you tell him that Chinese refrigeration technicians work for $10/month, he'll probably suggest you Fed-ex you refrigerator to Shanghai for repairs.
Why the long series of posts? It just bothers me that a man (Neal Thomas) comes onto this board. Not the usual nothing-to-offer useless drivel poster, but a person of substance who has something real to offer. Simply, a man who can DO something that some of us NEED DONE.
(This is generally referred to as a SERVICE... and in a capitalist system is usually considered a good thing).
So how do the high minds at ET respond? One puts him down... saying that others do the same thing for 7-10/hr (a laughable assertion).
Another confirms the availability of low-wage programmers, by mentioning overseas workers (completely irrelevant and impractical, given the scale of project that Neal Thomas is seeking).
And all this is in response to someone who is advertising the availability of something that some of us WANT AND NEED. What is the point?
What are you folks trying to accomplish?
Is there NOTHING that anyone can say on this board that won't inspire a handfool (misspelling intentional) of people to put it down?
When your automated app has a bug that causes it to send out 1000 orders in a few seconds, then you watch as your P&L plummets as you frantically try to stop the app and then close all the positions hoping slippage is all you'll lose, you can smile thinking "at least I got a good hourly rate on the program".
IT is dead in the US.
But until they move all the systems over seas too,
its not totally dead.
One company im aware of hired a bunch of over seas
developers. Some manager somewhere got a big fat
bonus im sure.
But all of a sudden... their IT admins and DBAs and all other
IT support staff are getting calls in the middle of the night and
are getting no sleep.
Now they are hiring a whole new support staff, duplicating
everything, so they can support the over seas guys
during THEIR work day. Lmaoooo... there goes all the savings.
Next step is to move the support and all hardware over seas
too, and get rid of the duplication.
The only thing keeping stuff here is the need to run
local hardware to keep lag and networking issues down
for US customers.
This will get solved too, and then there will be no more
IT jobs.
Then who is next? Lower management of course.
Because they cant work weird hours over the phone
with developers they cant understand and have
face to face time with.
They will be replaced by foreign managers as well.
Sigh........ IT guys are screwed. Just a matter of time.
In a few years the average programmer will be making $15/hour.
Im outta here.
peace
axeman
But until they move all the systems over seas too,
its not totally dead.
One company im aware of hired a bunch of over seas
developers. Some manager somewhere got a big fat
bonus im sure.
But all of a sudden... their IT admins and DBAs and all other
IT support staff are getting calls in the middle of the night and
are getting no sleep.
Now they are hiring a whole new support staff, duplicating
everything, so they can support the over seas guys
during THEIR work day. Lmaoooo... there goes all the savings.
Next step is to move the support and all hardware over seas
too, and get rid of the duplication.
The only thing keeping stuff here is the need to run
local hardware to keep lag and networking issues down
for US customers.
This will get solved too, and then there will be no more
IT jobs.
Then who is next? Lower management of course.
Because they cant work weird hours over the phone
with developers they cant understand and have
face to face time with.
They will be replaced by foreign managers as well.
Sigh........ IT guys are screwed. Just a matter of time.
In a few years the average programmer will be making $15/hour.
Im outta here.
peace
axeman