Abortion is a Human Right!

Quote from 2cents:

you are too young to understand "oppression" under its different forms obviously bigot... perhaps you should read yourself a few prayers now, take a hot bath, sthg like that...
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despite the obviously high opinion you have of yourself, you're little more than a small, puny, man. Vermin really... abortable to say the least.

By the way, it's likely I have you by at least a decade.

the idiot uses "oppression" in the same sentence in which he lables me a "bigot" and there-by attempts to dismiss everything I have to say. Some might say he is attempting to "oppress" me.

Here's a clue, clueless, you're a frail, fallible little man ... just like the rest of us... Only, you have no moral compass. You're a godless pig. God have mercy on the humanity you ever control.
 
Quote from 2cents:

ok thanks for sharing your prayer, how was the hot bath?
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prayer? ... touche' ... are you suggesting prayer is some kind of evil???

:p

some use prayer, some meditate, some do yoga, some dream... me, I torch people who laugh and ridicule the people who rely on the former.
 
Quote from neophyte321:

prayer? ... touche' ... are you suggesting prayer is some kind of evil???
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certainly not

neither are hot baths if you had any doubts...

any more questions my young and easily oppressed friend or are u now convinced that the integrity and rights of the human person, be it a vile and impure woman, should be respected, no matter what this or that pope may say about abortion etc, a subject he knows sh*t about anyway?
 
Abortion is the liberals way of keeping the Negro race down and out. 1500 afro-amer abortions every DAY. The number one means of death for blacks.

Since 1973 over 20 million black abortions.... That is a lot of voters...enough even to elect Al Sharpton......but abortion keeps the black numbers low enough for them to be subjectcated to begging for handouts from the power white liberal elite.
 
If your premise is correct, do you agree that a woman has the right to abort up to the last day of pregnancy? What's your moral cutoff point, or do you even have one?
 
Quote from 2cents:

ok i'll oblige...

i'll apply 2 straightforward standards:
a. what happens inside a woman's body is her sole & only responsibility regardless of age.
That is OPINION and you provided zero evidence. And since you are foolish enough to try and supply your concept of universal truth, you should know even one contradiction (look up Proof by Contradiction in Math/CompSci) it is therefore able to dismiss your standard. Here are two:

a) Most under age women do NOT have this control. For example, required surgery, and abortion choices.

b) What is inside a woman's body is her SOLE responsibility? Women have lots of responsibilities external to her body. Try DRIVING, SHOPPING, WORKING, etc. etc.
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b. any aggression against a pregnant women with intent to harm the fetus against her will is a severe crime, falls under extreme cruelty. in particular any physical aggression against a child-bearing girl by a parent for any reason whatsoever is a severe crime
You are writing this carefully to avoid making the distinction about abortion ending a human life. And again, you are floating opinion, which is a valueless standard. You have not been established as an authority. In fact, you are establishing yourself as a flyweight. No one punishes such a felon because it is to "harm the fetus against her will"
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1. And what then, is wrong with aborting your husband? If he abuses her? If she gets tired of carrying her marriage "to term"?<i>
1. irrelevant. if you mean "murder" then you've got your answer. if you mean "divorce" then it don't see the problem... if it was an attempt at humor, try not to waste people's time...</i>

Irrelevant? A woman chooses to end a life. You are trying to redefine it to suit your opinion. Again, you make yourself the authority, but you have only authorized yourself as clueless. The example is totally relevant.

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2. What is wrong with aborting her "already-born" children if she gets tired of them? or doesn't want to have them? Or they don't listen?
<i>2. clearcut murder</i>

Not according to #4, and you again tailor the laws and your opinions to suit your arguments.
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3. If a criminal shoots the woman in the stomach and kills the baby, why then does the law hold the shooter responsible for the baby's death? Why not the doctor who aborts?
<i>3. there is no baby there. just a developing organism inside one and only one sovereign human person. apply standards a. & b.</i>

How many women say " I am carrying a developing organism? They say, "I am carrying my husband's child" They say, "see, the baby kicked!" When is the last time that a parent said to their friends, "The developing organism is now 7 months old!"
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4. If she aborts it 5 minutes before birth, is it abortion or murder? IF she suffocates it 5 minutes after birth, is it abortion or murder? Why or why not? Life begins at conception. There is nothing special about birth, except one starts sucking air instead of sucking juice through the placenta.
<i>4. apply a. before birth (show me instances of mothers aborting 5 minutes "before birth" please...). after birth, its murder. why this "arbirtrary" line? because free speech aside, no one should be allowed to "arbitrarily" legiferate nor issue fatwas nor any manner of religious "opinions" over what happens INSIDE someone's else body againt that person's will, moron!</i>

legiferate??? Your standards are YOUR standards, and I already demonstrated they are groundless as universal standards. You keep cobbling together a Rube Goldberg machine trying to create a patchwork that supports your positionj. IE, it is NOT supported. While you issue "fatwas" of what YOU think should happen, you whine about others "doing this."
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5. If a 16 year old girl shot her mother, who was trying to kill her 2 year old brother, would it be self-defense? or her 5-minute old brother? or if her mother went after 5-minute-before-birth brother with a coat hangar?
<i>5. attempting to protect somebody else's life doesn't qualify as self-defense... in your latter case, there are only 2 persons involved, its pretty clear who the aggressor is. if you'd like to change that into: "or if her mother went after the girl's 5-minute-before-birth fetus with a coat hangar?", b. would apply</i>
Hopefully, you are not trying by tweezing semantics. YOu understood the point. There is no need to redefine.
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<i>Note 2: one can have a bio degree and still be a bigot...</i>

While for yourself, one can have no brain and still be an idiot.
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While the rest of you have been fighting, I have thought about what happens when these (unfortunately) unwanted children aren't adopted, and are shuttled around foster care and group homes.
 
I promised myself I wouldn’t jump into the middle of this discussion, (last time I checked this was a trading forum), but I just can’t help myself. I haven’t been involved in an abortion related discussion in probably 10 years, and this thread has reminded me of the platforms upon which people base their arguments. Here are some comments & musings:

- These arguments will never get resolved through confrontation, because the criteria by which people pick their sides are completely different. Pro-lifers appeal to reason (pointing to when a fertilized egg becomes a human, and applying ‘normal’ laws to that human), while Pro-choicer’s appeal to emotion (a woman’s body is her own, she’s free to decide what to do with it, no one can tell her what to do). It’s extremely rare to see both sides debate the topic by both appealing to either reason or emotion at the same time, thus they talk around each other instead of with each other and it eventually degenerates into name calling and insults.

- Every great civilization falls by first rotting from the inside out. There are certain qualities that allow civilizations to become great in the first place: hard work, ambition (distaste for not being great), but most importantly sacrifice for what is perceived to be a greater good. Once a civilization achieves greatness, and consequently wealth, it doesn’t take too many generations to pass before these qualities can no longer be found amongst the majority of the people. People who have never had to work or sacrifice for anything don’t know how to work hard, have no ambition besides pleasure-seeking, and are incapable of understanding that freedom requires responsibility. It’s like an equation that does not compute for them. They think that their life is 100% their own, and they can make any choice they want without affecting anyone else. However, it is an interesting social experiment when everyone makes that same determination at the same time. It won’t take long for the soft underbelly to spread throughout the entire organism, and before that civilization becomes fodder for the next emerging civilization that knows how to work hard and sacrifice. This cycle has been going on since the beginning of time, and it’s clear to me that we are only a few generations away from disintegration. No politician, no law, no man-made structure can prevent a herd of “free” people who accept no responsibility for their actions and endlessly pleasure seek and take what they want now without paying the price from ultimately destroying themselves.

- I actually enjoyed reading rcanfiel’s posts for once

- My wife and I have 2 kids, but we’ve looked into adoption before and we know plenty of couples who either have adopted or would like to adopt. However, adopting a child in the US is extremely difficult, and we know people who have been trying to adopt for years unsuccessfully. It appears to be a supply & demand thing: there’s a massive demand for healthy children and not that many to go around. If the mother can be considered the seller, it’s a seller’s market. Aborting a child because you don’t think you can adopt it out to a family that wants it is, from my experience, an unfounded argument. Why wouldn’t a girl/woman want to give the baby up for adoption? Unwillingness to sacrifice a few months of your life for someone else (both the baby and it’s desperately hopeful new parents)? Don’t want the stretch marks? Don’t want the shame or damage to the reputation? This is an appeal to reason, not emotion, so don’t just come back and say no one can tell a woman what to do with her body. I think it boils down to an unwillingness to either sacrifice or take responsibility for your actions, which is a litmus test for where we are on the disintegration curve.

- I know a woman who aborted a child as a young teen when her boyfriend got her pregnant. She was confused and upset and getting pressure from her boyfriend they went to a clinic and did the deed. While it took care of the immediate problem, that decision has impacted her life in a multitude of ways. In her own words, she spent the next 10 years of her life heavily involved in drugs and alcohol in an attempt to numb the pain and guilt of that fateful decision. Even though she now has her life together, and is a contributing member of society, the pain of the abortion haunts her to this day. She told me that she does everything she can to pretend that it never happened, but every once in a while the thought escapes its prison in her mind and breaks into her consciousness. I was with her one day a couple of years ago during such a time, and I witnessed a breakdown that emotionally tore me to pieces. Here was an intelligent, beautiful grown woman, kneeling on the floor, tearing at her cloths and shrieking with horror as she exclaimed “I killed my child!” over and over again, wishing she could die herself. I’ve never seen such raw emotion before. At one point I caught a glance looking directly into her eyes, and I literally saw a pain so deep that it can only be described as hell… the hell that results from making a mistake that can never be repaid to the one who was offended. Until that moment I never had strong feelings on the subject of abortion, it was always just a theoretical dilemma to me. It is much more personal now. How’s that for appealing to emotion? I wonder how many pro-choicer’s have either been through an abortion themselves or have spoken to someone who has while they are being honest with themselves, or if they simply enjoy being part of the freedom-without-responsibility bandwagon.
 
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