abolish the Federal Reserve?

Quote from daddyeaux:

OK....... 2014 dollars..........
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Gold is not that special any more - it's just a shiny rock.

M2 has been increasing by 7.3% per year since 1975 and gold has earned 5.3%. That's okay but nothing to jump and down about.

I'll bet you my oil will beat your gold 32 years from now. All of planet earth will be fighting for it. Wars, politicians, countries, terrorists - everyone wants to produce it, use it, fight for it, destroy it. It's the center of civilization for decades to come. I could make the same argument for LNG, Rail, etc.

Gold is nice. But it was much nicer back in the Gold Rush Days.

You have to go for the commodities that all these people with inflated money want to buy and the industries that are built around them. And gold isn't it any more...
 
I have to disagree with you on that one. Oil is very abundant, and we will destroy the planet and make it uninhabitable before we use it all. Gold is a means for exchange in times of corrupted governments and worthless fiat currency in circulation. Gold has many uses, exchange has to be one of the lowest and worthless uses for the metal. I will not say for what but it is true. Gold serves a very special purpose on earth. With new technologies already developed, the transformation of information systems on the web will leak them to the public, and their consumption of oil will become less and less. It is actually quite barbaric and outdated to still be using this for energy. For instance, I saw a guy who created a hydrogen powered car, powered on bubbles from compression(and is contacted by the gov saying his patents and technologies are a matter of national security). If that is not enough another made an air powered car. There must be more inventions than these being kept from the public. I know one inventor who tried to take the denial of several of his patents to court and was rejected as his patents did not mix right with economic interests. Nikola tesla also had this problem. p-
 
Quote from PARACLESE:

No. the fact that you pay interest on printed timber, like it costed something to begin with. If anything there may be some one time fee, or a surcharge, but interest?
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I think you're arguing that banks should not be able to create money unless it is collateralized? Well, that makes a lot of sense. I think the big issue is what do you use for collateral. I think gold is pretty useless any more. In fact, using any commodity or basket of commodities is tricky just due market price fluctuations. So I'm not sure how practical that is.

On the other hand, you may be arguing that they should not increase the money supply at all? Well, they should actually be able to increase money supply by a few percent to handle productivity increases, etc. However, again if this is what you are saying, increasing it at a 7-8% average clip (which is what M2 has been for the last 10, 20, 30 years) is out of hand and hurts everyone.

But I'm not sure I understand your point about interest. Why wouldn't a bank be able to charge interest? A bank does have substantial capital outlays in personnel, buildings and other assets. Why would they not get compensated in some way for their risks?
 
Quote from PARACLESE:

I have to disagree with you on that one. Oil is very abundant, and we will destroy the planet and make it uninhabitable before we use it all. Gold is a means for exchange in times of corrupted governments and worthless fiat currency in circulation. Gold has many uses, exchange has to be one of the lowest and worthless uses for the metal. I will not say for what but it is true. Gold serves a very special purpose on earth. With new technologies already developed, the transformation of information systems on the web will leak them to the public, and their consumption of oil will become less and less. It is actually quite barbaric and outdated to still be using this for energy. For instance, I saw a guy who created a hydrogen powered car, powered on bubbles from compression(and is contacted by the gov saying his patents and technologies are a matter of national security). If that is not enough another made an air powered car. There must be more inventions than these being kept from the public. I know one inventor who tried to take the denial of several of his patents to court and was rejected as his patents did not mix right with economic interests. Nikola tesla also had this problem. p-
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I'm not actually saying gold is worthless. I overstated to make a point. But I'd rather have Black Gold any day. Yes, oil may fall short term - I agree with that - but long term it's going nowhere but up.

And, with all due respect, hydrogen (and ethanol btw) will never fly long term without some kind of quantum leap in technology. Solar plastic films are much more likely imo to make a difference, but even if they come to fruition as everyone hopes, they will only offset our oil usage.

And I don't buy the energy conspiracy stuff. Right now there are a number of solar film mfgs that are out in the open and not being threatened by the government or bought out by oil companies, etc. And they will probably be very successful at curbing energy demands for oil in the next decade or two.
 
Quote from PARACLESE:

For instance, I saw a guy who created a hydrogen powered car, powered on bubbles from compression(and is contacted by the gov saying his patents and technologies are a matter of national security). If that is not enough another made an air powered car. There must be more inventions than these being kept from the public.
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C'mon! All this guy has to do is walk into the nearest office of the ACLU and he'd have instant world headlines. They'll protect pedophiles for crying out loud! Or he could just submit a prototype to about ten universities or ten newspapers or even Drudge...Or he could just flee to some other country and become the next Carlos Slim...
 
Quote from acerbits:

letting uncle sam take over is the same as giving people like bush the freedom to completely sell out america.
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is it?..... nevermind that your assertion is seen by history as upmost delusional, but tell us, what makes you think that's the case and why the sell out is not already happening nor won't ever happen either with the money changers in control of everything.

so curious..
 
Quote from Bitstream:

is it?..... nevermind that your assertion is seen by history as upmost delusional, but tell us, what makes you think that's the case and why the sell out is not already happening nor won't ever happen either with the money changers in control of everything.

so curious..
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There is an immutable law: if anything can be screwed up and screwed up to the highest possible level, it will be done by the federal government.

There are few exceptions.

Oh, and let's don't forget the corrollary: it will take decades to reverse what is screwed up and decades after that to undo the damage...
 
Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

But I'm not sure I understand your point about interest. Why wouldn't a bank be able to charge interest? A bank does have substantial capital outlays in personnel, buildings and other assets. Why would they not get compensated in some way for their risks? [/B]
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Actually banks don't lend you money, but Federal Reserve notes, which people came to think of as money, and it is fine to charge interest on collateralized Federal Reserve notes - let's call them money, but not on money created out of thin air. Anybody can do that - it's risk free profits. Just print some, lend it, and charge interest. So easy:D.
It's all in here:
http://www.mises.org/Books/mysteryofbanking.pdf
 
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