abolish the Federal Reserve?

Quote from bluud:

I never made a conclusion I was only asking, it's pretty obvious. but they still do make money out of thin air, look at the leverage they get without having to pay interest on it.

that's what I mean. where do you get the silly idea they don't pay interest on their leverage?
 
"If he/Fed are not going to do their job then why have them?"

The Fed is to keep inflation low and to maintain economic stability. You have only to look at history to see what a fine job it has done.

After all, no one profits from instability and economic turmoil, do they?

You should think of them as the wise fathers of the economy who have only your best interest at heart. True you are not blood-relatives to them, but you should think that they think of you as such - and why would they hurt you after all?
 
Quote from BJL:

that's what I mean. where do you get the silly idea they don't pay interest on their leverage?

I'm no economist but going through http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking I didn't see any clear notification that they do

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I like the part about history of Fractional reserve banking:

At one time, people deposited gold coins and silver coins at goldsmiths for safe keeping, receiving in turn a note for their deposit. Once these notes became a trusted medium of exchange an early form of paper money was born, in the form of gold certificates and silver certificates.

As the notes were used directly in trade, the goldsmiths noted that people would never redeem all their notes at the same time, and saw the opportunity to issue new bank notes in the form of interest paying loans. These generated income—a process that altered their role from passive guardians of bullion charging fees for safe storage, to interest-paying and earning banks. Fractional-reserve banking was born. When creditors (the owners of the notes) lost faith in the ability of the bank to exchange their notes back into coins, many would try to redeem their notes at the same time. This was called a bank run and many early banks either went into insolvency or refused to pay up.
 
Quote from faure:

There's a lot of uninformed opinion around this site especially around economics. First off monetarism ala Milton Friedman failed miserably in the middle of the last century. It has been tried and it didn't work - controlling the money supply doesn't work and infact, it can't be done (international capital flows, globalisation, etc..) There's a lot more to Monetary policy and economic policy as a whole than interest rates.

When you set the interest rate the money supply is determined endogenously; you could say the price determines the demand and that supply is effectively inelastic and unlimited.

I'm not so sure the Fed has failed. I'd say the number one culprit for the housing bubble and virtually every other bubble is the American public; Joe Sixpack. The Fed's role has effectively become that of a babysitter - protecting the people from themselves.

It used to be that economic theory's justification for intervention in free markets was market failure, essentially protecting individuals from exploitation from firms, but that's obviously changed.

The problem lies with the attitude and mindset of a nation, something that's very hard to change. Things like the Marginal Propensity to Consume, Import and Borrow have got out of control and the Fed only has a very limited influence on these things. When someone loses their house because they took a loan that was beyond their means to pay, who should they blame? The bank to a degree, the Fed to an even smaller degree, but at the end of the day that person needs to bear the responsibility for taking a loan they couldn't pay.

The Fed right now is more focused on keeping the Financial and Banking system (on which housing obviously has a huge impact) stable, rather than fighting inflation which last I checked was under 3%. I can't say I disagree because they Fed only has limited control over the price of energy because of international demand. Higher rates would slow the economy and energy demand but what would be the effects of that on homeowners, banks, the financial system?

One thing we can be sure of is that Uncle Sam would screw up far worse than the Fed. You'd be giving the guy who has to pay the bills the ability to print and determine the cost of money.

The big problem is the overleveraged loans they are making using fractional reserve banking. They lend 20x what they have in reserve or for every dollar. Three guys do not pay and there is a problem. Boom and bust. Well the problem with allowing a private institution the ability to print money out of thin air and then charge a usury, is they could careless how much you draw yourself into debt. It is good business to them. It is not like they are losing anything. They will continue to print the money out of thin air, give it to eachother or the "owners" for free, and charge you the customer, or should I say the employee, of the united states corporation of america. The proletariat and the bourgoise, things never change. As long as people think they need dumb rulers, there will always be some dumb ruler to rule over them. So it is the thought that you think you need that keeps them in business. JFK signed an execuitive order to abolish the fed, printed something like $500k in usury free money, yes free money. Well you can see how people who had "vested interest" took hold to that.
 
Quote from bluud:

I'm no economist but going through http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking I didn't see any clear notification that they do

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I like the part about history of Fractional reserve banking:

At one time, people deposited gold coins and silver coins at goldsmiths for safe keeping, receiving in turn a note for their deposit. Once these notes became a trusted medium of exchange an early form of paper money was born, in the form of gold certificates and silver certificates.

As the notes were used directly in trade, the goldsmiths noted that people would never redeem all their notes at the same time, and saw the opportunity to issue new bank notes in the form of interest paying loans. These generated income—a process that altered their role from passive guardians of bullion charging fees for safe storage, to interest-paying and earning banks. Fractional-reserve banking was born. When creditors (the owners of the notes) lost faith in the ability of the bank to exchange their notes back into coins, many would try to redeem their notes at the same time. This was called a bank run and many early banks either went into insolvency or refused to pay up.

It was the Knights Templars who created the banking system. An they still hold high office to this day. Exxon, doublecross, which is their insignia, is just one of their many tremendous arms. Call exxon and ask, they admit it.
 
Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

I reread your post and I agree with you to a certain extent. I actually think it's a very dysfunctional relationship. It's like looking at a family where the husband is a control freak and takes advantage of the wife who gives into everything he says. Who is more right? wrong? Well, they both are in their own way.

But when you say 'usury', you remind me of practices a hundred or more years ago and modern day America is nothing like that. Any of these individuals could rent a nice house and save up for a deposit just like the rest of us. They are not being forced to live in a slum and pay interest on their food and utilities. So I'm sorry, but I think you're going too far with the 'usury' comparison...

The fed prints money for free and charges you for it, THAT is usury. You do not see the problem here?
 
oil at 90-94, gold 780-800, wheat a 850-900,

trillion dollar sub-prime (try to get a quote)

this stuff didn't get there from sound monetary policy
 
"The fed prints money for free and charges you for it"

The TREASURY prints the money.

They just do what the Fed tells them to do...:D

If the member banks of the Fed get paid interest for the money loaned to the gov't that they told the Treasury to print, does that profit show up on their books? They should never have a losing quarter!!
 
Quote from WaveStrider:

"The fed prints money for free and charges you for it"

The TREASURY prints the money.

They just do what the Fed tells them to do...:D

If the member banks of the Fed get paid interest for the money loaned to the gov't that they told the Treasury to print, does that profit show up on their books? They should never have a losing quarter!!

Central banks dont have to show profit or loss
 
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