You stole that elephant example from one of my old posts didnt you?
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A word about redistribution of wealth
- Thread starter jonbig04
- Start date
You stole that elephant example from one of my old posts didnt you?
I'm not concerned about the poor so much as the middle class. You say the income doesnt transfer to them. did you not see the chart? what you are saying is not going to happen is already happening. You can say that it doesnt happen but right now TODAY the rich's income is growing while the middle class's is not. I'm not saying gov. spending isn't out of control, we all know it is and we can all agree on that.
But that's not a transfer! If my income grows and yours stays steady, you transferred nothing to me. Also represents zero-sum and faulty economic thinking. In your world if I work and some dude stayed home on a drinking binge, then that was a wealth transfer from the drunk to me.
I hear it all the time from democrats and I'm sick of it. Getting rich off the backs of the poor my ass. Most of them aren't even workng. Think about it- if they transferred wealth to the upper incomes, aren't they dumbasses for letting it go?
You mention entitlements and once again that goes to the bottom 25% or so who make diddly. Whether our not they are receiving too much of our tax dollars is not my point. That money doesn't go to the middle class...your average everyday family of four. So for the sake of argument lets say hat the government spend too much money on entitlements for the bottom 25% or so. We'll call it entitlement money. My point is that the middle class pay more (on a percentage basis) than the upper class do. Both classes are paying for the "entitlement money"..but the middle class is paying a higher percentage of their income for it.
you need to do your homework work before spouting off. First of all it's been shown over an over again that the middle class is by the largest recipient of entitlements. Think about SSI, it is awarded according to income up to $94K. Can't think of a more direct way to transfer to the middle class. Most medicare ends up taking care of middle class retirees.
and complete liberal populist bullshit about the middle class paying more as both a percentage of income and as a percentage of the total. see table 1.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html
Top 1% income brackett
percentage of income 22.06%
share of taxes paid 39.89%
average rate 22.79%
Top 5%
% income 36.66%
% Share paid 60.14%
rate 20.68%
Now for the middle class:
Top 6-10%
% income 10.66%
% share paid 10.65%
rate 12.6%
Top 11-25%
% income 20.84%
% share paid 15.47%
rate 9.36%
Top 26-50%
% income 19.33%
% share paid 10.75%
rate 7.01%
Now if you include payroll, doesn't matter. That cash all goes to the lower incomes anyway.
But that's not a transfer! If my income grows and yours stays steady, you transferred nothing to me. Also represents zero-sum and faulty economic thinking. In your world if I work and some dude stayed home on a drinking binge, then that was a wealth transfer from the drunk to me.
I hear it all the time from democrats and I'm sick of it. Getting rich off the backs of the poor my ass. Most of them aren't even workng. Think about it- if they transferred wealth to the upper incomes, aren't they dumbasses for letting it go?
You mention entitlements and once again that goes to the bottom 25% or so who make diddly. Whether our not they are receiving too much of our tax dollars is not my point. That money doesn't go to the middle class...your average everyday family of four. So for the sake of argument lets say hat the government spend too much money on entitlements for the bottom 25% or so. We'll call it entitlement money. My point is that the middle class pay more (on a percentage basis) than the upper class do. Both classes are paying for the "entitlement money"..but the middle class is paying a higher percentage of their income for it.
you need to do your homework work before spouting off. First of all it's been shown over an over again that the middle class is by the largest recipient of entitlements. Think about SSI, it is awarded according to income up to $94K. Can't think of a more direct way to transfer to the middle class. Most medicare ends up taking care of middle class retirees.
and complete liberal populist bullshit about the middle class paying more as both a percentage of income and as a percentage of the total. see table 1.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html
Top 1% income brackett
percentage of income 22.06%
share of taxes paid 39.89%
average rate 22.79%
Top 5%
% income 36.66%
% Share paid 60.14%
rate 20.68%
Now for the middle class:
Top 6-10%
% income 10.66%
% share paid 10.65%
rate 12.6%
Top 11-25%
% income 20.84%
% share paid 15.47%
rate 9.36%
Top 26-50%
% income 19.33%
% share paid 10.75%
rate 7.01%
Now if you include payroll, doesn't matter. That cash all goes to the lower incomes anyway.
But that's not a transfer! If my income grows and yours stays steady, you transferred nothing to me. Also represents zero-sum and faulty economic thinking. In your world if I work and some dude stayed home on a drinking binge, then that was a wealth transfer from the drunk to me.
Sorry you are right, my mistake. the income of the middle class has GONE DOWN. Please see table on the first page. There is your transfer
I hear it all the time from democrats and I'm sick of it. Getting rich off the backs of the poor my ass. Most of them aren't even workng. Think about it- if they transferred wealth to the upper incomes, aren't they dumbasses for letting it go?
Once again I'm not talking about the poor, im talking about middle class ,working, tax paying people.
you need to do your homework work before spouting off. First of all it's been shown over an over again that the middle class is by the largest recipient of entitlements. Think about SSI, it is awarded according to income up to $94K. Can't think of a more direct way to transfer to the middle class. Most medicare ends up taking care of middle class retirees.
You are the one who said about the entitlements "most recipients are at the bottom". However in thinking about it, I will freely admit that I was wrong it seems the middle class does receive the bulk of the money via social security and medicare.
and complete liberal populist bullshit about the middle class paying more as both a percentage of income and as a percentage of the total. see table 1.
I NEVER said that the middle class made more as a percentage of the whole.
One question though are you saying that in the end the middle class pay less taxes on a percentage basis than the rich?
Sorry you are right, my mistake. the income of the middle class has GONE DOWN. Please see table on the first page. There is your transfer
I hear it all the time from democrats and I'm sick of it. Getting rich off the backs of the poor my ass. Most of them aren't even workng. Think about it- if they transferred wealth to the upper incomes, aren't they dumbasses for letting it go?
Once again I'm not talking about the poor, im talking about middle class ,working, tax paying people.
you need to do your homework work before spouting off. First of all it's been shown over an over again that the middle class is by the largest recipient of entitlements. Think about SSI, it is awarded according to income up to $94K. Can't think of a more direct way to transfer to the middle class. Most medicare ends up taking care of middle class retirees.
You are the one who said about the entitlements "most recipients are at the bottom". However in thinking about it, I will freely admit that I was wrong it seems the middle class does receive the bulk of the money via social security and medicare.
and complete liberal populist bullshit about the middle class paying more as both a percentage of income and as a percentage of the total. see table 1.
I NEVER said that the middle class made more as a percentage of the whole.
One question though are you saying that in the end the middle class pay less taxes on a percentage basis than the rich?
Quote from Mav88:
Top 1% income brackett
percentage of income 22.06%
share of taxes paid 39.89%
average rate 22.79%
Top 5%
% income 36.66%
% Share paid 60.14%
rate 20.68%
Now for the middle class:
Top 6-10%
% income 10.66%
% share paid 10.65%
rate 12.6%
Top 11-25%
% income 20.84%
% share paid 15.47%
rate 9.36%
Top 26-50%
% income 19.33%
% share paid 10.75%
rate 7.01%
Now if you include payroll, doesn't matter. That cash all goes to the lower incomes anyway.
Bingo Mav!
I was going to post the same thing, but then just figured it a waste of time as the pro "tax the rich" crew is going to believe what they want regardless of facts.
My two problems with Obama's tax ideas aren't raising taxes in general, but the WAY in which he wants to do it.
A) It most definitely is redistribution of wealth if you give money to people who are not even paying taxes. BO's "tax credits" do this in 6 of his 7 programs. In such cases, no taxes need be paid to receive a credit (check). I do not see how this can be termed anything else. You are taking money from the wealthy and directly giving it to the lower classes. At least expand medicare or something. NO CHECKS TO PEOPLE THAT MAY NOT EVEN WORK!
B) You are taxing the engine that creates the most jobs. Guess what is going to happen when you do this? And please, no BS about how great is was under Clinton when taxes were higher. He had the tech boom during almost his entire administration. Any tax scheme would have looked golden then.
I am for leaving taxes right where they are. They bring in record revenues every year, and encourage growth. We also need a long term strategy. Changing the tax rates every few years makes long term planning a nightmare.
Cut the damn spending. both parties should be sacked imo.
Jayford
Quote from Bigpipn:
I've used that analogy for years. I forgot where I picked it up from. (Some self improvement audio cd probably). It's a great analogy and it's so incredibly true.
Yes... agree.
They start off when the elephant is only a baby, and tie their leg with a heavy chain..... no matter how hard the lil fellow struggles, he cant break free of the chain. After a while, it's ingrained in their heads that they cant break free, and as they get older, all that is needed to keep them tied is ordinary rope.
Quote from Brandonf:
You all are making me sick. How can you not understand the simple point that a risk free pension income has some god damn value to it...a lot.
If I worked for the government for 35 years and retire making say $80,000 a year, I get a pension. Its gaurantee'd, its never ever ever going to go anyplace, no matter what. I don't take any risk for it, I dont have to do anything for it. Even if I have zero savings, that pension is pretty damn valuable. It probably brings me 40K or so a year.
Now lets assume I was a self employed entrepreneur for 35 years. I've saved and sold my business. I'm worth $5million at retirement. I have to get an 8% return on that $5million, which is fyi not that easy for the average person, or even professional it turns out, to do. I have to get 8% return on my $5million to have the same lifestyle as the government worker.
The pension has a huge value to it. Thats the point. How can you "not follow" that?
Umm, 8% of $5 mil is $400k, not $40k. So you would only need a return of .8% to make $40k. You could easily beat that return by putting the money into a CD.