A thorough analysis on why Obama will be loved worldwide for years to come

[drjekyllus]

Quote from traderNik:



Obama is of course not without his faults but he's a fucking genius compared to his predecessor.

In the first 9 months of his Presidency Obama has more Congressional failures than Bush had his entire first term. If Bush is such an idiot, then how come he was able to push his agenda through, while Obama's agenda has been a complete disaster.

Everytime the public wants to know why Obama is so fucked up, the proper thing to do would be to blame George Bush. That will highlight the hope and change that Obama campaigned on.

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from a_person:

Nik, with all my due respect it is not that simple. Obama has no balls and while he may indeed be a genius compared to his predecessor, the outcome of his policies might be just as bad if not worse.

So far he has completely blown the unique once in a lifetime opportunity of a meaningful healthcare reform in this country, whatever may eventually pass will not be worth the paper it'll be printed on. His stimulus/recovery plan is a disaster, he is burning trillions of dollars without making any structural changes and fixing problems that caused the collapse to begin with. Iranians are spitting in his face, North Koreans are spitting in his face, the Europeans, the Russians, the Israelis, the Chinese are spitting in his face, the IOC took real pleasure yesterday to spit in his face. He is a weak, harmless, lovable puppy, not the leader of the free world. Did I mention that he has no balls?

a_p, I understand where you're coming from. I too think that he has missed some opportunities. However, I don't see his first year as being quite as dire as you do. To me, the fact that he had the balls to make healthcare an issue, finally, after so many families were destroyed by the insurance companies who refused to treat their loved ones, was a step forward. No one seems to have talked very much about the fact that an investment in health care has benefits down the road, benefits that are hard to quantify now. If you ask me what America's biggest problems are, one I would name with hesitation is the corporatization of the food industry and the fact that the FDA is an arm of big business. American children are fucked because they consume shit. They are fat and out of shape. Reigning in the "food-insurance-medical' complex isn't an option, it's desperately required. The best system for America is a two tier system, and that's probably what they'll get. At least this is a step in that direction.

Can we really compare the amount of money that was fucked away by GWB et al in Iran and Afghanistan and say that spending 1/3 as much on health care is a mistake?

With regard to the economic fixes... can you really see anyone doing anything substantially different? I see the idiotic bailout of the auto industry as a fait accompli. What brand new President would have the political will to oppose that one, even if he believed that they should be allowed to go down in flames?

The North Koreans, Iranians and Chinese would be spitting in the face of any democrat or Republican, at least in private. That's just what they think of Westerners, and they intend to prove, in the next 50-100 years (especially the Chinese), that the American Empire was just a blip on the radar screen of history.

No, he's not an iron-fisted leader, and that's too bad for the U.S. Is he a sociological phenomenon? Perhaps in part. However, I'm still glad he was elected. I just don't see him as doing significantly worse than anyone else.

 

[MohdSalleh]

Quote from Debaser82:

He isn't that guy.

Quite the phenomenon really come to think of it.

Obama could ad 30 trillion $ to the national debt, invade Iran and nuke the entire African continent and still people would rate him above the inbred Texan chief in command.

The public mind, it's a funny thing.

President Bush was not loved, but he was certainly respected.

Great men are almost always ridiculed, despied and unappreciated in their time .

What President bush did for America will not be forgotten by a grateful nation and in time, he will be vindicated.
"
Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized. In the first it is ridiculed; in the second it is opposed; in the third it is regarded as self-evident.

--Arthur Schopenhauer"

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from MohdSalleh:
Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized. In the first it is ridiculed; in the second it is opposed; in the third it is regarded as self-evident.

--Arthur Schopenhauer"

What was that thudding noise?

Oh right. It was Schopenhauer rolling over in his grave

 

[a_person]

Quote from traderNik: [/B]

a_p, I understand where you're coming from. I too think that he has missed some opportunities. However, I don't see his first year as being quite as dire as you do. To me, the fact that he had the balls to make healthcare an issue, finally, after so many families were destroyed by the insurance companies who refused to treat their loved ones, was a step forward. No one seems to have talked very much about the fact that an investment in health care has benefits down the road, benefits that are hard to quantify now. If you ask me what America's biggest problems are, one I would name with hesitation is the corporatization of the food industry and the fact that the FDA is an arm of big business. American children are fucked because they consume shit. They are fat and out of shape. Reigning in the "food-insurance-medical' complex isn't an option, it's desperately required. The best system for America is a two tier system, and that's probably what they'll get. At least this is a step in that direction.
Nik, Obama had a once in a lifetime window of opportunity to actually get a real meaningful healthcare bill passed. He had 80% approval rating, majorities in congress and senate and the good will of the american public (that was scared shitless). The opposition was in complete disarray too. It was not going to be easy of course, he should have twisted a few arms and broken a few legs but quickly pushed though a meaningful healthcare bill along the lines that you describe. Instead he procrastinated, hesitated, compromised, sought consensus... and it's too late now. The best he can hope to achieve is put some lipstick on the pig of the American Healthcare industry. And it's not even clear whether he can do that.

Can we really compare the amount of money that was fucked away by GWB et al in Iran and Afghanistan and say that spending 1/3 as much on health care is a mistake?
I don't compare him to Bush, Bush made his mistakes, Obama is making his... I only hope he'll learn from them. God knows this country and the world can't handle three more years of american weakness and/or incompetence.

With regard to the economic fixes... can you really see anyone doing anything substantially different? I see the idiotic bailout of the auto industry as a fait accompli. What brand new President would have the political will to oppose that one, even if he believed that they should be allowed to go down in flames?
I actually have no problem with the bailout, it was a necessary evil, the economy was collapsing and the bailout bought the government time to implement necessary changes to help american middle class, support collapsing industries, create jobs, invest in infrastructure, rein in corporate excess and abuse etc. The administration unfortunately wasted the time and did not do any of it.

 

[Vista]

Quote from traderNik:

To me, the fact that he had the balls to make healthcare an issue, .......

C,mon are you liberals that easily fooled? Do you really think this marxist cares about the healthcare of the people? This is about power and control, nothing else.

 

[a_person]

Quote from Vista:

C,mon are you liberals that easily fooled? Do you really think this marxist cares about the healthcare of the people? This is about power and control, nothing else.

Nik is not a liberal and not easily fooled, Obama is not a marxist, liberals do indeed care about healthcare and they are absolutely unable to project power and control even when they are in power and control. Other than that you have a point

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from a_person:
Nik is not a liberal

Thank you. I am anything but.

Quote from a_person:
I actually have no problem with the bailout, it was a necessary evil, the economy was collapsing and the bailout bought the government time to implement necessary changes to help american middle class, support collapsing industries, create jobs, invest in infrastructure, rein in corporate excess and abuse etc. The administration unfortunately wasted the time and did not do any of it.

You know more than I about the balance of power and Senate/House issues that would have allowed him to force through the 'strong version' of the health care bill(s).

We'll have to agree to disagree about the auto bailout, at least in the form it eventually took. I never bought into the doomsday scenarios surrounding the failure of GM, the idea that it would have caused a domino effect with the collapse of related businesses and then a run on the banks and the collapse of the economy. I think there would have been hard times for many, but the U.S. would have been better off for it. And again, I scoff at the idea that any other President, from either party, would have been able to do anything different.

Quote from a_person:
God knows this country and the world can't handle three more years of american weakness and/or incompetence.

In this we agree, and I hope for the best. I am on record here stating that I considered America to be the greatest country in the world when I was growing up. I have nothing but contempt for the far left who find it so easy to bash America. One only has to travel the world to understand how many people (many in what are known as 'developing' countries where the lifestyle isn't all bad) would give everything they own for a chance to just land on U.S. soil and get a job cleaning toilets. It would be a dream come true for them.