A simple price action approach

Quote from wrbtrader:

First of all, I don't like it when discretionary traders (those not using automation or mechanical trading systems) give the impression or state that their profits is exclusive via their trade method alone and everything else is none existent (not needed). Hopefully, that's not what you interpret from NoDoji.

With that said, everybody has some sort'uv short-term luck or short-term unlucky. Therefore, one evidence (not statistical) would be long-term profits. Simply, NoDoji will know for sure in about 10 years from now that it wasn't short-term luck if still profitable. :cool:

As for statistical evidence, any consistently profitable discretionary trader (not using an automation system) must know that profits aren't exclusive via the trade method alone. The following are very important in determining short-term profitability or long term proftitability...a discretionary trader's trading plan:

* Market experience
* Discipline
* Money management
* Position size management
* Proper capitalization
* Stress management
* Proper broker platform
* Proper trade workstation
* Proper at home trade environment (retail traders)
* Trade Method with edge

My point is that your question...the way it's stated...implies that the trade method is the "only" variable that determines profitability. Yet, I do understand if your question was stated as such if NoDoji or others prior have implied the other variables I've listed above have "no impact" on their trading results.

Regardless, intentionally being redundant, its still an incorrect assumption to believe discretionary traders profitability is determine via the trade method alone in light of the above listed other critical variables (together it's called a trading plan) to the equation that also determines profitability...critical variables that on any given trading day will have more impact on trading results than the trade method itself.

Therefore, if you need statistical evidence, you're approaching this the wrong way considering in theory nobody can provide statistical evidence involving many of the above key variables in a trader's trading plan except for a few variables.

If you don't understand or think it's something to debate...here's a pizza analogy. To properly test (look for evidence) about a trader's profitability...it's flaw testing/research to only taste the sauce to determine how good a pizza will taste while ignoring the other ingredients in that pizza. Simply, to test or look for evidence involving a profitable discretionary trader...you must eat the pizza with all it's ingredients (the entire trading plan as a whole working together) and not one ingredient alone.

In contrast, if NoDoji was using an automation system, mechanical system (computer codes)...that's when you can ask for statistical evidence and ignore (in theory) all those other key variables I mentioned.

Mark

Most of the things you mentioned are not edges, they are things that enable you take advantage of an edge. A true edge is a way to extract excess profits from the financial markets, having a good broker, solid discipline, etc. Tells you NOTHING about when you will buy and sell and therefore beat other market participants

Take blackjack for instance, an edge is a counting strategy, having discipline will help you take advantage of the edge by avoiding mistakes, having a large bankroll enables you to survive the swings, choosing weak casinos will help you by enabling you to count but the single most important factor if the fact that you can count cards, all that other stuff wont make you money if you dont have that.
 
Quote from Daal:

Most of the things you mentioned are not edges, they are things that enable you take advantage of an edge. A true edge is a way to extract excess profits from the financial markets, having a good broker, solid discipline, etc. Tells you NOTHING about when you will buy and sell and therefore beat other market participants...

I never said they were edges. I said they do and will have an impact on your trading results if you're a discretionary trader like NoDoji or anyone else that's not using automation/mechanical trading system. Further, just the fact that you specifically said yourself that these critical variables...

Enables you take advantage of an edge is agreeing with me that they are critical variables that have impact on your trading results.

Like I said, it's really not debatable especially since we are essentially agreeing about their importance. :cool:

As for discipline...one of the key variables you have already stated has an impact on someones ability to take advantage of an edge. If you truly believe that if you don't follow the rules of your trade method or trading plan itself (lacking discipline) that it will not impact your trading results...

(that contradicts what you stated originally that the variables I mention will enable a trader to take advantage of the edge)

Your trading results should be the same based upon what you're implying...correct? :D

Mark
 
Quote from wrbtrader:

I never said they were edges. I said they do and will have an impact on your trading results if you're a discretionary trader like NoDoji or anyone else that's not using automation/mechanical trading system. Further, just the fact that you specifically said yourself that these critical variables...

Enables you take advantage of an edge is agreeing with me that they are critical variables that have impact on your trading results.

Like I said, it's really not debatable especially since we are essentially agreeing about their importance. :cool:

As for discipline...one of the key variables you have already stated has an impact on someones ability to take advantage of an edge. If you truly believe that if you don't follow the rules of your trade method or trading plan itself (lacking discipline) that it will not impact your trading results...

Your trading results should be the same based upon what you're implying...correct? :D

Mark

Bottom line is where is the statistical evidence that trendfollowing is an edge in intraday data?Acrary seems to have found it but the post where he wrote no longer works. Furthermore he found that 2 out of 13 years intraday trendfollowing did not work well, so for all the lemmings who think trendfollowing is some kind of magic, during that sample there was a 15% chance the trader would just piss their money away all year. The gurus wont tell you that
 
Quote from Daal:

Bottom line is where is the statistical evidence that trendfollowing is an edge in intraday data?Acrary seems to have found it but the post where he wrote no longer works. Furthermore he found that 2 out of 13 years intraday trendfollowing did not work well, so for all the lemmings who think trendfollowing is some kind of magic, during that sample that was 15% chance the trader would just piss their money away all year. The gurus wont tell you that

You should send NoDoji a private message just in case she doesn't see your question here in this thread for whatever reason.

I don't know Acrary and I'm not a trendfollower. Yet, I must admit that it's very nice when I do catch a trend when such wasn't planned. Also, I have read that most futures trading instruments only trend 20% - 25% of the time. That implies that someone using a trendfollowing method or trying to catch trends will have a tough time at it 75% - 80% of the time assuming they're trading every trading day.

Therefore, there may be a little truth to what you said...

Quote from Daal:

...2 out of 13 years intraday trendfollowing did not work well...

Like I said, we're not debating...just agreeing. :cool:

Mark
 
Quote from macattack:

I've tried making a plan multiple times, but it just seems silly after I do it. The plan is simply to make a fortune from trading. I prefer daytrading. Right now it's CL, used to be NQ (which I can't even stand to watch anymore; it chops endlessly & slowly too often).

I also wrote down a profit target a few different times, but it seems silly too. My goal is to be an expert at trading & make as many good trades as I can each day. Profit will vary.

I trade from work. I can stare at the screen quite often as my job is easy. I rarely make bad trades due to being at work; I make bad trades because I'm simply entering & exiting at the wrong places. I've done just as bad sitting at home.

I use what so many other people use, which makes me wonder how 1 guy can make a fortune & another can end up bankrupt. What is the difference?

Anyway, I use support, resistance, highs & lows in price action, 20 SMA, patterns such as double tops/bottoms, triangles, rectangles; also draw horizontal lines & trendlines on the chart. For CL I use 300 volume for entry, 3000 volume for big picture, also glance at daily, 60 min, 5 min from time-to-time just for a different view.

It doesn't seem that much different than a really complicated, complex video game. I want to sit down each day & try for a new high score.

macattack

just want to reassure you that.... it is possible to pick up nickles and dimes, here and there but surely not every where....

yes, it is possible to become profitable in trading but we must have patient.... extreme patient.... to wait for our predetermined pattern, setup, then.... hard stop, trailing, breakeven plus 1, 2, 3 or whatever, and the emergency FLAT button;

for just in case.... while in trade.... we fall asleep amongst our friends--our dream, the reality and our fantasy....

there are many good suggestions in et.... they are all free here.... good luck....
 

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Ok, here's today's euro update. I've been wondering if I should put these charts into a separate thread. Maybe something like "Dave's learning how to trade channels journal" or something? :D

So here's the channel I had drawn on the euro last night.

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And here's how it played out.

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After price broke out of the channel and then dropped sharply back to it just after midnight, I drew in the purple down trendline from the same high the channel started from.

First pretend trade was the first red arrow. Short on a break back into the channel. I didn't take the initial break into the channel because the big 5-min bar spooked me. ;) But I tried it after the retest of the upper line. I was targeting the lower limit but it never got there. Had 40 ticks or so at the 1:45ish low but then it came back and stopped me at breakeven.

Next trade was short at the purple trendline (second red arrow). I took the stop-out on the up bar at 4:40 (thin green arrow) as it looked like price was supporting on the channel and about to climb higher. Of course that was the last push higher before the drop.

With NoDoji's "take all the trades mantra" in mind, I re-entered short on the third red arrow and price made it to the red upper limit target.

I wasn't watching at the 7am but had I been I'd have tried to short. Looks like it would have come back and stopped me for little or no gain (or maybe a loss, who knows).

So 1 for 4. Feedback anyone?
 

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Quote from Zr1Trader:

Just got back from bringing my gf to taylor swift concert last night , oh joy. Anyway, took this trade on the 5 min yesterday after I saw it cross back over the hourly trendline, Low risk , High reward! still waiting for touch of target trendline.

Exit 124.140 for a $1462 profit... In SIM .


So far practicing this method....

4 trades
1 with a few ticks profit
2 BE +1 tick
1 Big winner

PS. while in practice I will be assuming using a 25,000 dollar account with $125 max risk per trade and a $500 dollar daily loss limit.
 

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Quote from dv4632:

Ok, here's today's euro update. I've been wondering if I should put these charts into a separate thread. Maybe something like "Dave's learning how to trade channels journal" or something? :D

So here's the channel I had drawn on the euro last night.

attachment.php

may i have your permission to put up a 6E chart below your euro chart just for a gross glance over, perhaps?

not saying one is better than the other, ok?

just enjoy the diversities among et members, alright.
 

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Quote from Daal:

NoDoji,
considering that a high number of traders using different ways to 'interpret' price action or trendlines and how to trade them will virtually guarantee that some of them will be winners over a certain period of time, what kind of evidence do you have that this is a sound method to use for the long-run instead of short-term luck?

By that I mean statistical evidence that trendfollowing works in intraday data

The year of statistical analysis I did for my chosen trend-following setups with my defined trade management rules demonstrated a 70% success rate. This is strictly using a 5-min chart. The year I analyzed included a bull market correction, a renewed bull run to 2-year highs, strong trend days, weak trend days, wide range days, narrow range days, and a price range between the $60's and the 110's. That's what I call "varying conditions" and my strategies proved profitable through all these conditions.

The major adaptation I had to make was when price began trading in the $90-$100 range this year, and the volatility picked up. I began using the 1-min chart to see inside the 5-min setups and enter positions off levels where my max stop loss would survive. My other choice was to place wider stops, but the 1-min time frame obviated the need for that.
 
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