Quote from OldTrader:
I'm always amused to read a post like this. What it says to me is that you started at some point that you "assumed" would remain the same for the remainder of your trading life....but it didn't. So you became "embittered" with your chosen profession, and you preach this "bitterness" to others.
First let me just say that I made my first trade in 1966. There were no listed options, no index futures. Commissions were huge so no one that I knew day traded.
Oh yes, then the market peaked in 1968 and commenced to trade in a range for the next 16 years or so. Can you imagine the guy who started in let's say 1955, who believed that the market would stay the same, what he might have to say about 1978?
Then too we had no bond futures, gold futures back in the 60's, but eventually they started. Gold at one time was a commodity that I day traded. I haven't daytraded gold in a couple of decades I think.
I have been trading the index futures from the beginning...first with the Value Line, then later the S&P futures when they started. I thought the S&P was a private ATM when it first started. Then the market got a little more sophisticated and I had to learn a few new tricks.
Guess what? I've been learning new tricks since I've been in this business. This business is exactly the same as it's always been. You need to shift, adjust, understand that no technique, no method lasts forever. But people have been making money in the stock market for well over a century. That hasn't changed at all.
I'm having a great year this year. I'm not trading the same way that I did when the index futures first started. I'm not sure that I'll be trading the same way next year that I do this year.
But what I'm confident about is that the stock market will still be moving around, just like it always has. It's my job to figure out how to make a buck out of it. Whining about how it "changed" is not going to help me in that task.
I think this business is a great business...but not an easy business. This is a business where a guy can make a fortune starting with a small amount of money. The first thing though you have to do is to learn the business of speculation. That takes some time and alot of effort.
To the original poster....I'd back away for a while if I were you. A loss of 19% is alot for 3 weeks. You sound like you're trading a small account, or trading too big of a position for the capital that you have. You need to look over what you're doing BEFORE you start trading again. You need a plan. It sounds like you're trading way too emotional. Until you have some type of plan that you can assure yourself works, I wouldn't trade again.
OldTrader
The facts do speak for themselves. Illiquid is on the mark when he delinneates the opportunities that are there and that he finds them very sufficient for getting the job done.
Turning to your comments in the last two paragraphs using the illiquid standard ( the other comments on poor market conditions are trivial once it is understood that money is being made), it is more than necessary for the thread starter to understand that when he looks at what he believed to be a plan, that he actually, in fact, did not have a plan.
He was, more than anything, telling himself to flee what he was doing. No person starting out can ever give himself permission to trade what he thinks is a plan. Beginning traders can do no more than warm up drills to start with.
In choosing the drills, there are about only three that are possible. These are all no risk drills as well. All that can be done to become a trader in the beginning is to learn how to have "experience". The experience gained is most valuable because it leads to knowledge and skills.
Everyone starts out with no knowledge, no skills and no experience. Where do these three things come from?
The thread starter did not have any of them and he cannot consider himself to have a plan. He is not capable of rationally assessing any plan either. If he were shown plans, he could not deal with any practical aspects of assessing much less using a plan.
If you look at the names people give themselves it is very evident that the names do not relate to making money but usually relate to lack of knowledge, skills and experience. there are few exceptions and most are related to the fact that the name being used is one that came from learning the hard way.
This person can best become a trader by doing drills. Three nice ones that do not cost much are: entering on brackets when heretofore very low volume dominated, doing wash trades, and holding in a market right after the open settles down and INCREASING volume has allowed a bracket entry.
The midday is best for the first drill. Late morning and mid afternoon is best for the second drill. The second drill is also used for all exits if the bracket entries were held too long. The third drill, holding (specifically holding on increasing volume), is the most important of all.
Knowledge gained from these drills is the key ingredient for all else. Brackets teach a person about who is in charge of entries: the market. Washes teach the knowledge that losing is not a necessity in trading. Holding on increasing volume gives a person the knowledge that people are what causes to market to move.
Imagine the basic skill of setting brackets. One part becomes a point of entry and the other is an initial stop. How can a person who knows nothing put brackets in place. Placing orders where the market is not is a VERY good experience. You get to watch the market after you set the bracket. Your value decisions sit there and the market moves to one of them. It takes other trader's decisions to get the market to your decision value. Other smarter traders. You join the smart traders soon enough when your bracket is hit.
Then begins drill number two. Learning to wash out after you have been taken into the market. this is not a drill for making money; it is a drill to learn that it is not necessary to lose money.
If you do drill three for each bracket entry, you get to learn how increasing volume is required to keep a trend moving. You will learn to "see" and "hear" the market with the "holding" drill. Leaving when volume stops increasing is a nice event. It occurs well before any wash trade drill can be done.
Skills show up using these three drills. Sharing roles (responsibilities) with the market comes with bracketing efforts. The washing skill is the most important emotional leavening skill you will ever acquire. It is so calming to know that you can always wash after an entry where the market has taken you into a trade as a consequence of price movement caused by smart traders. There is nothing wrong with entering the market a little later than the smart money.
The holding skill is the money skill. Drive for pleasure putt for money. Holding is putting stuff. You watch the increasing volume move you from the Tee and down the fairway and onto the green. Then the volume increases come to an end and you putt. How close to or whether it goes in the hole is just a matter of doing the holding drill enough times. Holing out about 18 times a days works out just fine. Count the peaking volume situations for a day and see what I mean.
bracket drill.........holding drill.......washing drill on lousy holds.
It is very hard to do such drills. It is very good to do these drills.
As you do them, you will notice that you no longer are plagued by the urge to flee after every entry.
Oh use a chart and mark brackets on it just for laughs. Notice that no matter how poorly you do it the price does move through one side of the bracket and later a peaking volume occurs.
Doing brackets properly is like choosing golf clubs for driving and making fairway shots. How hard is it to pull a club out of a bag anyway?
Skip thinking up trading plans for quite a while. It is not a possibility for any beginner and never was.
Discipline comes from a different place than beginners expect. You can't develop discipline until you know what you are doing. Drills impart disipline. Everyone should do a couple of washes every day. Some of them will make money you will find out. Thats just because you never get back to the wash price. Do a time out (only try for the wash for x minutes before you have to give up with a profit).
