A Quick Question
- Thread starter StockApprentice
- Start date
Originally posted by dgzadok
With all due respect, I daytrade the ES exclusivley, and make
quite a substantial profit
Trading is trading... the vehicle you use makes no difference (with a few exceptions regarding liquidity, etc.).
Someday I would like to make the jump into trading the e-mini's
but as I papertrade it, it seems more difficult than just trading
equities. I wonder what percentage of newbie e-mini traders
last as long as 1 year. Anyone know this figure? Has there
been any studies on this? Perhaps in Futures magazine, ect?
Various studies over a 50-year period show that 80-90% of futures traders lose money. Most of those suggest that about two-thirds wash out within a year or two of trading. I personally don't think a greater percentage of futures traders lose money than those who trade momentum stocks, but the leverage involved in futures makes those losses mount up both faster and in greater amounts. Like dgzadok, I too make a considerable amount of money trading ES only..............What 90% of futures traders will never learn and/or can never seem to absorb psychologically is the tried-and-true cliche that you MUST cut your losses QUICKLY, QUICKLY, QUICKLY ----- the moment you know you're on the wrong side of the market, NEVER HOPING that prices will come back ----- and continue to hold winning positions for as long as you possibly can. Futures trading is the real thing ----- whatever your psychological and technical weaknesses as a trader are, they will be mercilessly exposed. But that's precisely why I love trading them ----- not only do they continually offer the prospect for spectacular profits day after day, but as Teresa Lo (one of my mentors) rightly says, if you can trade ES and NQ, you can trade anything!
What 90% of futures traders will never learn and/or can never seem to absorb psychologically is the tried-and-true cliche that you MUST cut your losses QUICKLY, QUICKLY, QUICKLY
This is THE #1 reason ALL traders, whether futures or stocks FAIL...
People, by nature, hate to admit when they're WRONG; thereby holding on to their LOSERS, because they know, they just KNOW they are RIGHT...
And when they are right, they want to bag their profits too quickly...
Just talk with any of the BUY and HOLDers about their experience the past 18 months... most of them will tell you they were sure the market would come back.
But unfortunately, if you LOSE just 50% of your investment, you now must GAIN 100%, just to get back to a break even position... and let's not even talk about averaging DOWN... what idiot came up with that strategy?
Here's to SUCCESSFUL trading!!!
Dave
This is THE #1 reason ALL traders, whether futures or stocks FAIL...
People, by nature, hate to admit when they're WRONG; thereby holding on to their LOSERS, because they know, they just KNOW they are RIGHT...
And when they are right, they want to bag their profits too quickly...
Just talk with any of the BUY and HOLDers about their experience the past 18 months... most of them will tell you they were sure the market would come back.
But unfortunately, if you LOSE just 50% of your investment, you now must GAIN 100%, just to get back to a break even position... and let's not even talk about averaging DOWN... what idiot came up with that strategy?
Here's to SUCCESSFUL trading!!!
Dave
"if you can trade ES and NQ, you can trade anything"
Can anyone please explain what exactly ES and NQ mean/represent? Thank you.
Can anyone please explain what exactly ES and NQ mean/represent? Thank you.
armaniman
"What 90% of futures traders will never learn and/or can never seem to absorb psychologically is the tried-and-true cliche that you MUST cut your losses QUICKLY, QUICKLY, QUICKLY "
dgzadok
"People, by nature, hate to admit when they're WRONG; thereby holding on to their LOSERS, because they know, they just KNOW they are RIGHT... "
Can I just disagree with the above points as, for me, they are rather simplistic. My appalling trading performance just recently has more to do with cutting my losses early when trend seems to change only to find I was dead right in the overall market direction. Problem is that when this happens 6 or 7 times in a row you just give up thinking the market is going nowhere only to find you miss the move you were trying to catch in the first place. Of course all these small losses lead to a drawdown tantamount to a reasonable sized loss, which is the problem with what you are saying.
Perhaps your words of wisdom would work better on more "trendy" markets like currencies, or perhaps bonds. It just does not cut the mustard when you are dealing with the constant chop that is the eminis.
"What 90% of futures traders will never learn and/or can never seem to absorb psychologically is the tried-and-true cliche that you MUST cut your losses QUICKLY, QUICKLY, QUICKLY "
dgzadok
"People, by nature, hate to admit when they're WRONG; thereby holding on to their LOSERS, because they know, they just KNOW they are RIGHT... "
Can I just disagree with the above points as, for me, they are rather simplistic. My appalling trading performance just recently has more to do with cutting my losses early when trend seems to change only to find I was dead right in the overall market direction. Problem is that when this happens 6 or 7 times in a row you just give up thinking the market is going nowhere only to find you miss the move you were trying to catch in the first place. Of course all these small losses lead to a drawdown tantamount to a reasonable sized loss, which is the problem with what you are saying.
Perhaps your words of wisdom would work better on more "trendy" markets like currencies, or perhaps bonds. It just does not cut the mustard when you are dealing with the constant chop that is the eminis.
"Problem is that when this happens 6 or 7 times in a row you just give up thinking the market is going nowhere only to find you miss the move you were trying to catch in the first place. "
With all due respect, Funster, if you are getting stopped out 6 or 7 times before the market finally moves the way you THOUGHT it would...
I would highly consider re-evaluating your ENTRY strategy...
Happy Trading
Dave
With all due respect, Funster, if you are getting stopped out 6 or 7 times before the market finally moves the way you THOUGHT it would...
I would highly consider re-evaluating your ENTRY strategy...
Happy Trading
Dave
Originally posted by dgzadok
"You can daytrade ES and NQ all you
want! Trying to make a profit is the problem...
Version...
With all due respect, I daytrade the ES exclusivley, and make
quite a substantial profit
Trading is trading... the vehicle you use makes no difference (with a few exceptions regarding liquidity, etc.).
Happy Trading to ALL!
Dave
Dave,
What strategies do you use in daytrading ES?
Thanks.
The eminis are a very tough market in my opinion. No technical analysis gives you the edge here because everyone uses it. Chart pattern targets often fall short and, more importantly, it is here that you truly see that the market has 5 different trends not 3 as most think (up, down, sideways):
1. Up
2. Chop Up
3. Sideways
4. Chop Down
5. Down
Most of the time it spends in 2-4. You would also think that 2 would be a prelude to 5 and 4 would be the correction leading to 1. However in my studies the likliness of this happening in a tradeable way is no more than random.
So yes, Dave, I would also like to hear more about your trading style!
1. Up
2. Chop Up
3. Sideways
4. Chop Down
5. Down
Most of the time it spends in 2-4. You would also think that 2 would be a prelude to 5 and 4 would be the correction leading to 1. However in my studies the likliness of this happening in a tradeable way is no more than random.
So yes, Dave, I would also like to hear more about your trading style!