A Question for Scalpers

I thought scalping has a new meaning since decimalisation.
Buy a breakout and get out when momentum goes out.

Take MYOG yesterday (april 10th). The third three minute bar was a nice short at 34. For a quick 50 cent profit on the first half of the shares. And 70 cents for the rest.
That's what I call scalping. Does anyone else share this opinion with me?

-Dave.
 
scalping means short term trades

obviously, it's SOMEWHAT relative

to somebody that has been holding BA for 10 yrs, reversing their long position and doing a 3 day short would be a scalp by their frame of reference

i think among daytraders , a scalp is measured in minutes, not hours
 
Quote from davevandenheuve:

I thought scalping has a new meaning since decimalisation.
Buy a breakout and get out when momentum goes out.

Take MYOG yesterday (april 10th). The third three minute bar was a nice short at 34. For a quick 50 cent profit on the first half of the shares. And 70 cents for the rest.
That's what I call scalping. Does anyone else share this opinion with me?

-Dave.
More...

Why is it important for you to place a narrow definition on the term "scalping"...
Relative to TA terms like "breakout" and "momentum"?

Scalping is simply a short term trade (minutes or hours)... for a small profit.

rm+

:cool: :cool: :cool:
 
Quote from whitster:

scalping means short term trades

obviously, it's SOMEWHAT relative

to somebody that has been holding BA for 10 yrs, reversing their long position and doing a 3 day short would be a scalp by their frame of reference

i think among daytraders , a scalp is measured in minutes, not hours
More...

If I were scalping Equities....I would have a different Scalping time frame than scalping Futures. I have scalped stocks in the past....usually in a trade for minutes....maybe to half an hour. With Futures....my usual scalp is 10 to 30 seconds....sometimes up to one or two minute. Depends on the speed of the market.

Right now....as I type....I am in a Trend trade....ER taking a Big dive....a beautiful sight. The candles are very smooth going down. I am trading watching 234 and 610 tick charts this morning. There is no need to go to a faster Tick chart to Scalp.

VSTscalper
 

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This chart is just minutes later....still diving.

The key is to recognize when you should Scalp or follow the Trend. Every trade I do....starts out being a Scalp trade....until it proves otherwise.

I initially did 2 Scalps this morning....then have been in the Trend down....from 758.30....with 4 contracts....to now. This is as real time as I can show.

VSTscalper
 

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Quote from VSTscalper:

You all make some good points about Scalping....but if done right....it can be rewarding. I think Scalping Stocks is a lot harder than scalping Futures.

I have been day trading and scalping for many years now. Started with stocks....now totally scalp the e-mini's for the past several years. Will never trade a stock again.

So far....all the conversation seems to be about Scalping Stocks. I think there is a big difference scalping Futures.

I use a lot less margin per trade....and make a much better and faster profit than I ever did scalping stocks. Of course....when I lose on a trade....I lose much bigger and faster....haha

My win_loss ratio is very high. The key to my trading is my Discipline. My Discipline is based on a set of Rules which I Strictly follow. Years ago....I had Rules....but I used to break them all the time....and that is when I lost....big. I was Wild....be up $500 in the morning....down $1000 by the time the market closed....and the funny thing is....I thought I was a Disciplined trader back then. In reality....back in those days....I didn't have any idea about what Discipline really was. I had to train myself to follow my Rules....then I started being consistently profitable.

By the way....I NEVER use more than $2,000 on any trade. I scalp the ES or ER for 2 ticks....4 contracts. It cost me $500 per contract. When the trade is done....I have the same money to trade with again. I Net....$64.40 per 2 tick trade....on 4 contracts. My RT commissions are $15.60 for 4 contracts. I do have losing trades....but not too often....and if I make a mistake....I take the loss.

The biggest problem I see for Scalpers....is waiting for the trade to set-up. If you Force a trade....you will burn yourself....but if you wait for the Set-up....you can win at Scalping. Years ago....I was the type of trader who always had to be in a trade....and that was one of my biggest problems....and that is when I lost the most. If you are Scalping....you better damn sure wait for the right Set-up.

I do a combination of Scalping and trading in a Trend. One thing I will say....since I learned how to Scalp....I am now a better trader when trying to follow a Trend.

Good trading to all!

VSTscalper
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Just wondering VST,you say you go for 2 ticks.What is your usual stop loss?
 
Here is the 234 tick chart....and my Exit...."Buy to Cover". What made me get out was the fact that it broke my Major Trendline....and my Indicator was starting to turn. You will very often see a Range develop after a long Trend.

I did a couple of scalps early on....then caught quite a bit of the Trend coming down.

My point in showing these three charts....is to say....we have to be flexible....Scalp when needed....follow the Trend....when you see it develop. I do both. Why Scalp....when the Candles are this Smooth going down. If the Candles were more volatile....meaning "wicks" shooting way up and way down....I would Scalp going down....but in this case....we had beautiful smooth candles....all the way down.

Short at 758.30....Buy to Cover at 748.90....with 4 contracts. I went way past my Net daily goal....but....the Trend being so smooth....kept me in. I have Rules that I follow for different types of trades. In this case....I reached my Net daily goal....early in the Trend....but because it was a Smooth Trend down....my Rule allowed me to stay in the Trade.

I tried to do this this morning as close to Real Time as I could. Had to take Screen shots....then save as GIF....plus watch the trade....plus reply to the forum.

VSTscalper
 

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Quote from johnk49:

Just wondering VST,you say you go for 2 ticks.What is your usual stop loss?
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johnk49,

The trading program I use now....allows me to set my Entry....Exit....Stop....all at once....before I enter the trade. I do the same thing....over and over.

My stop starts at 20 ticks when I enter....it is my Disaster Stop....and since Hurricane Katrina....I call it my FEMA stop....named after the hurricane fiasco. Basically....the Stop is nowhere to be found....kind of like FEMA. As soon as the Trade is Entered....I look at the situation....and if I am not out of the Trade within about 20 seconds....I move the stop to about 10 ticks. At 30 seconds....I move it to 5 or 6 ticks. With the trading program I am using....it is a simple click to move the stop. So....yes....I do use a Stop....but my Rules tell me how to place the Stop....and when.

VSTscalper
 
Quote from VSTscalper:

This chart is just minutes later....still diving.

The key is to recognize when you should Scalp or follow the Trend. Every trade I do....starts out being a Scalp trade....until it proves otherwise.

I initially did 2 Scalps this morning....then have been in the Trend down....from 758.30....with 4 contracts....to now. This is as real time as I can show.

VSTscalper
More...

I was watching the same thing. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I've seen guys at trader firms just get out of positions that had not realized thier full potential "just because." I was always amazed at how these guys thought they had a chance - taking 5 cent profits and giving 5 cents back when wrong on a position. I too use order flow as safety to get into and out of positions and I don't hold for that long - but my point is that I have a directional bias and that I never enter a position unless I feel that the risk far outweighs the reward.

So, to clarify - my general opposition to scalping is that exits are often arbitrary. For me, if something is breaking down below it's opening and pivot ranges, I'm holding it until it more than makes up for 5-10 losing trades. (unless it reverses).
 
Quote from FaderTrader:

I was watching the same thing. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I've seen guys at trader firms just get out of positions that had not realized thier full potential "just because." I was always amazed at how these guys thought they had a chance - taking 5 cent profits and giving 5 cents back when wrong on a position. I too use order flow as safety to get into and out of positions and I don't hold for that long - but my point is that I have a directional bias and that I never enter a position unless I feel that the risk far outweighs the reward.

So, to clarify - my general opposition to scalping is that exits are often arbitrary. For me, if something is breaking down below it's opening and pivot ranges, I'm holding it until it more than makes up for 5-10 losing trades. (unless it reverses).
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FaderTrader,

I actually agree with you. All I am trying to show is we can Scalp....when needed or follow a Trend when available. I love Scalping....but I would much rather get into a Trend like today.

My Scalps....are Specific....not Arbitrary. But I know what you are saying....and you are correct.

Also....because I have learned how to Scalp....which is now easy for me....it has also helped me to Identify when a Trend is developing....rather than a Scalping situation. I don't know if that makes sense or not. I can recognize Patterns very fast. Other than my Indicator....I just use Trendlines and Range Boxes....no Moving Averages....Bands....Channels....etc....just simple Trendlines and Range Boxes. And I don't Draw them for myself....only when showing someone else.

I use my Trendlines for Support and Resistance....plus Nearby Pivots. I can tell when Prices are going into a Range condition....within three Candles usually.

Good trading to all!

VSTscalper
 
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