A list of all scam unregulated 3rd party educational vendors

[Now is Now]

Quote from rew:

[BCertainly if you intend to get training in trading from someone you should demand to see audited brokerage statements that prove that person really knows how to trade. But you don't need the government for that. [/B]

The problem with what you are suggesting is there is no way of being provided audited brokerage statements when the charlatans are operating under the guise of "education"...

You cannot audit "education"..

These sites have all been set up with legal advice...and that is why when you read their disclosures you will find them generic right down to the last line.

Where the CFTC can help is if they did random checks of these site to ensure that they are operating EXACTLY the way they offered their services....and then the problem is that they, in effect, do not come under their jurisdiction.

Ideally, complainants should provide specific information as to where the charlatans are located...that will scare the living bejesus out of them...

NiN

 

[Neenisti]

This thread is a great idea to make everyone aware of the potential from individuals offering less than "quality" information regarding trading.

It is important to hear from actual participants in these educational programs as well, positive & negative. Hearsay is not a good way to portray any informational service. The problem with this in an internet forum is two fold.

First, the vast majority to MOST of those trying to learn a trading system or method usually go into that process with major baggage. It won't be the first time these individuals have attempted to learn a system or method so they bring to the table bad habits they either refuse to discard or worse yet, can't release for one embedded reason or another. Rarely does the "educator" address this problem adequately upfront in the hopes of stomping out this problem in the beginning. This is the educators fault, first and foremost but the student also bares part of the burden for not realizing that they must make a change to their habits to even have a small chance of succeeding.

Second, the very small percentage of individuals that might actually learn something in these classes and then apply them with even a small amount of success will never and I mean never enter a forum where they are so vastly outnumbered by those individuals that don't understand the first point I made.

I've wondered around the trading arena for going on 20 years, attending Expos, meet-and-greets, seminars and classes and I rarely talk to anyone that has taken a class they were really happy with. The responses I've heard over the years could all put into about 10 canned statements and simply played over and over and over again. A majority of these responses relate to accurately applying the techniques taught.

An instructors personal results are in no way shape or form any indication that person can teach anyone else exactly what they do. In fact, the odds are drastically against them that it would happen especially if they had been trading for any length of time. The greatest potential of success would come from someone that is a "blank slate" when it came to trading and then they would have to have a teacher that could actually "teach". The odds of that happening are very very very small.

Please think about these points as you all go forward in this thread.

 

[smilingsynic]

Quote from eudaemon:

You still have a few days before the end of the quarter.

??

 

[marketsurfer]

Thanks for the interesting and personal thoughts. However, I vehemently disagree with your premise. A trading tutor MUST be able to trade him or herself. There is no otherway to ascertain competence --otherwise it's all marketing hype, shills or hearsay evidence. Trading can be taught,all one needs to dois look at true prop shop training programs. Do they teach TA or other nonsense like the scores of pay mentors who have no stake inyour success? Very rarely, and if so it's very minor

There are no tests or pedigree required to sell education. The market is the only test.
Beware of anyone who suggests differently.

Surf

Quote from Neenisti:

This thread is a great idea to make everyone aware of the potential from individuals offering less than "quality" information regarding trading.

It is important to hear from actual participants in these educational programs as well, positive & negative. Hearsay is not a good way to portray any informational service. The problem with this in an internet forum is two fold.

First, the vast majority to MOST of those trying to learn a trading system or method usually go into that process with major baggage. It won't be the first time these individuals have attempted to learn a system or method so they bring to the table bad habits they either refuse to discard or worse yet, can't release for one embedded reason or another. Rarely does the "educator" address this problem adequately upfront in the hopes of stomping out this problem in the beginning. This is the educators fault, first and foremost but the student also bares part of the burden for not realizing that they must make a change to their habits to even have a small chance of succeeding.

Second, the very small percentage of individuals that might actually learn something in these classes and then apply them with even a small amount of success will never and I mean never enter a forum where they are so vastly outnumbered by those individuals that don't understand the first point I made.

I've wondered around the trading arena for going on 20 years, attending Expos, meet-and-greets, seminars and classes and I rarely talk to anyone that has taken a class they were really happy with. The responses I've heard over the years could all put into about 10 canned statements and simply played over and over and over again. A majority of these responses relate to accurately applying the techniques taught.

An instructors personal results are in no way shape or form any indication that person can teach anyone else exactly what they do. In fact, the odds are drastically against them that it would happen especially if they had been trading for any length of time. The greatest potential of success would come from someone that is a "blank slate" when it came to trading and then they would have to have a teacher that could actually "teach". The odds of that happening are very very very small.

Please think about these points as you all go forward in this thread.

 

[Neenisti]

Quote from marketsurfer:

Thanks for the interesting and personal thoughts. However, I vehemently disagree with your premise. A trading tutor MUST be able to trade him or herself. There is no otherway to ascertain competence --otherwise it's all marketing hype, shills or hearsay evidence. Trading can be taught,all one needs to dois look at true prop shop training programs. Do they teach TA or other nonsense like the scores of pay mentors who have no stake inyour success? Very rarely, and if so it's very minor

There are no tests or pedigree required to sell education. The market is the only test.
Beware of anyone who suggests differently.

Surf

I apologize for my lack of clarity in my statement.

I should have said, an instructors "positive" personal results are in no way shape or form any indication that instructor can teach anyone else exactly what they do. My whole point is that it is the exception, not the rule that "anyone" can be a successful teacher of the skill of trading. The shear number of people that fail is a perfect benchmark of that fact. Anyone that understands trading or investing at a career level and can understand how bad habits are created and can grasp that elementary fact.

Prop shops are just another example of mass failure on the part of their instructors and owners. The turnover in these bastions of Wall Street are immense. Now am I saying all prop shops are as credible as any other 3rd party vendor? No absolutely not but a majority of them are. They pour through the masses searching for a small handful of individuals that could probably be just as successful on their own given the right circumstances. They are constantly churning through "trainees".

I absolutely agree that there are no tests or pedigree required to sell education. The market truly is the only test and to take that one step further, one's own personal positive learned experiences and successes are all that is irrefutable.

 

[marketsurfer]

Thanks for the clarification. I agree except for your prop shop comment. I stated true prop shops not thechurn and burn retailers masquerading as prop shops. True prop shops primarily profit when the trader profits and teach real edge. No way could the traders be as successful outside of the shop without the specialized software capital and skill taught to use the provided edge. Thanks!

 

[zdreg]

Quote from rew:

The problem is that the near biggest fools are the ones in government. (The only bigger fools are the ones who vote for them.)

Certainly if you intend to get training in trading from someone you should demand to see audited brokerage statements that prove that person really knows how to trade. But you don't need the government for that.

"government regulation is the solution for human folly."

that statement was100% sarcasm

 

[Neenisti]

Quote from marketsurfer:

Thanks for the clarification. I agree except for your prop shop comment. I stated true prop shops not thechurn and burn retailers masquerading as prop shops. True prop shops primarily profit when the trader profits and teach real edge. No way could the traders be as successful outside of the shop without the specialized software capital and skill taught to use the provided edge. Thanks!

You're quite welcome.

Few, if any prop firms are willing to share their employment records, for obvious reasons. I know for a fact, from a friend that works in Bright's office in Vegas, that their turnover rate is very high and I consider Bright Trading one of the best prop firms out there, don't you?

I know quite a few successful traders that have been trading for years that have never worked for prop firms. I even know one trader that only uses IBD & the WSJ and makes 6 figures a year. Old coot hates computers. I agree it is the exception and not the norm but they do exist. There are far more institutional traders that are successful for a number of reasons but that doesn't mean there aren't successful retail traders.

 

[kentraderstar]

You guys should check this out. This is regarding to austinp www.coiledmarkets.com

Posted-04/21/2010 : 16:40:51 Tweet this post
Austin is a complete charlatan. I took his course live in Chicago. He flopped the entire week, never made a dime. I spent thousands on his "methods", including letting him manage some money, which he promptly lost. He is completely dishonest and greedy. He used to say that once you bought his system it included free lifetime updates. But he does not honor that even after the thousands he costs me he does not provide free access to "new" material. Not that it would do me any good. He is a magnificent snake oil salesman though. One of the best. The "god" references really make me want to vomit.

http://www.mypivots.com/board/topic/3010/2/coiled-markets

Quote from marketsurfer:

it's just wrong to directly attempt to damage ones legit business for spurious reasons.

Thanks, yes, all is well. peace out from one exfurtrader to another

surf

you call austinp legit business? Get a life

 

[munnyhunny]

You might be right, but maybe not.
An example of when that was not the case though in a different field is Nick Bolliteri. Most of you probably haven't heard of him, but in the 80's he produced a string of top 10 tennis players and he could barely hit the ball. Admittedly, no one else managed to do the same thing without knowing how to play, but then again no one else managed to do the same thing even knowing how to play.
So theoretically, something like that can be done.
Is that the case in the situation in question, well who knows.

Quote from marketsurfer:

Thanks for the interesting and personal thoughts. However, I vehemently disagree with your premise. A trading tutor MUST be able to trade him or herself. There is no otherway to ascertain competence --otherwise it's all marketing hype, shills or hearsay evidence. Trading can be taught,all one needs to dois look at true prop shop training programs. Do they teach TA or other nonsense like the scores of pay mentors who have no stake inyour success? Very rarely, and if so it's very minor

There are no tests or pedigree required to sell education. The market is the only test.
Beware of anyone who suggests differently.

Surf