So the hidden agenda on Washington is selling parts of the US to the China and Japan tru US Treasury emissions of other Treasury issues and inflating $?
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A Letter Against the Bailout Plan
- Thread starter OldTrader
- Start date
So the hidden agenda on Washington is selling parts of the US to the China and Japan tru US Treasury emissions of other Treasury issues and inflating $?
Quote from IluvVol:
slow buddy, my options dont expire today or tomorrow. And nothing has passed yet officially. There is no proof this all works but one thing is for sure, without it, it will get MUCH worse. Do you have ANYTHING whatsoever to argue against this? Then please bring it forth so we can all hear it. You have so far not added one single point that supports your thesis.
You gotta be kidding. Have YOU brought forward any proof that this plan works? Have YOU brought forward any proof that without the plan it will be worse? Of course not.
Here's what I know. The capitalistic system has been working for over 200 years. The best laid plans of government have never worked.
Either way, you got your plan. Capitalism took it on the chin today because of folks who think like you do. So let's see how it works out.
Again though, show me the proof that it gets worse without the plan. I'm looking forward to it.
By the way, where's your stop? LOL.
OldTrader
Quote from OldTrader:
Between you and me, I don't think anyone knows how all of this is going to come out. But if we fall apart, we'll all be damaged in one way or the other. It's not going to hurt me too bad. I'm not leveraged at all.
I think the "if" has been answered, it's how bad those who are even moderately leveraged will get hurt.
You simply can't unwind decades of leverage overnight and with little impact.
As for ILuvVol, sure looks like a case of buy the rumor and sell the news.
Now, if the rank & file in the House break from leadership, well, at least options provide one with a fixed loss...
Buddy, re-read all my posts, I have presented many points why its better to intervene than doing nothing. You with your thousands of posts seem to find all the time sitting at home and wine about your tax dollars, although you have actually not yet spent a freakin penny seem to see things differently than all the experts in the field WORLDWIDE. Look at what the ECB has done tonight, look at what FED has done. Just because the only thing you watch is your equity indexes and what you read in the Wall Street Journal does not mean that the concerted effort tonight has no effect on the money market and fixed income as well as credit system. Sure you can doubt pretty much all the financial leaders worldwide thats your right. But sitting there and doing nothing but complaining looks to me very un-American. Why does everyone have to come to mr oldtrader and even prove YOUR OWN points? Thats laughable. You have pointed to NOTHING that shows that doing noting will wash out the system and let us get all out of this unharmed. Where do you take that viewpoint from? We have never experienced such a financial crisis even you have not.
Quote from OldTrader:
You gotta be kidding. Have YOU brought forward any proof that this plan works? Have YOU brought forward any proof that without the plan it will be worse? Of course not.
Here's what I know. The capitalistic system has been working for over 200 years. The best laid plans of government have never worked.
Either way, you got your plan. Capitalism took it on the chin today because of folks who think like you do. So let's see how it works out.
Again though, show me the proof that it gets worse without the plan. I'm looking forward to it.
By the way, where's your stop? LOL.
OldTrader
Quote from IluvVol:
We have never experienced such a financial crisis even you have not.
Let's re-cap. This "crisis" is rooted in leverage. Leverage that's the result of far too many BYTs and MOTUs with their freshly minted MBAs and flashy powerpoint decks extolling the virtues of their snappy no-way-this-can-lose financial models.
Funny, none of them seem to be sporting models now that support your view that this HAS to be done to prevent meltdown...
They're all frozen, wide-eyed with horror, veritble deers in the headlights. An OMFG moment if there ever was.
OldTrader's only counter is history. Government Intervention(tm) DOES NOT WORK!!!
Capitalism doesn't guarantee success, only an opportunity for reward. But, it certainly requires failure if it's to remain a viable system.
I am not a proponent of government intervention per-se. But government intervention has sometimes worked in extreme crises. One example is the bailout of Crysler which saved tens of thousand of workers in the company as well as parts suppliers, dealerships. This is one single example. I can list tons of other examples where it has proven useful to intervene. Funny, how you guys actually talk your books. You guys liked it when the government intervened (through investigations and urging the CFTC to check things out and to pressure OPEC among many other parties) when we saw sky high oil prices because you could hardly affort to drive your pick up trucks anymore. This crisis has gone far beyond hurting some i-bankers. I-banks, if you have missed the news, are already of the past. This crisis is spreading to normal banks and has become a real threat to the wide economy including simple checking and savings as well as CD accounts. Lets not fool ourselves thinking this will just hurt couple greedy dudes on wall street.
Quote from jprad:
Let's re-cap. This "crisis" is rooted in leverage. Leverage that's the result of far too many BYTs and MOTUs with their freshly minted MBAs and flashy powerpoint decks extolling the virtues of their snappy no-way-this-can-lose financial models.
Funny, none of them seem to be sporting models now that support your view that this HAS to be done to prevent meltdown...
They're all frozen, wide-eyed with horror, veritble deers in the headlights. An OMFG moment if there ever was.
OldTrader's only counter is history. Government Intervention(tm) DOES NOT WORK!!!
Capitalism doesn't guarantee success, only an opportunity for reward. But, it certainly requires failure if it's to remain a viable system.
Quote from IluvVol:
Buddy, re-read all my posts, I have presented many points why its better to intervene than doing nothing.
I'm not going to re-read all your posts. If you've got any FACTS, present them. Up to now you've presented no facts regarding how it's going to worse without a plan than with the plan.
We have never experienced such a financial crisis even you have not.
What you should have said here is YOU have never experiencd such a financial crisis. In fact, there have been many financial crises in history. Many have taken the market down more than what we're down from the highs right now. Hell, in 1987 we dropped 20% in one day. In the 1973-1974 recession, the Dow dropped 50%. The average stock though, if they survived, was down 80-90%.
Maybe we should just go back to 2000, from which the average tech stock, if it survived, lost most of it's value in a couple of years.
Or take a look at the Japanese market sometime back at it's peak around 1990. You might learn something from that one.
Maybe this is your first rodeo, it's not mine. There's always different.
The currency markets are quite instructive on how well government intervention works. Maybe you remember some countries trying to support their currency...like England for instance when Soros was short, and broke them.
Trot your facts out son. We're waiting.
OldTrader
oldtrader, in case you STILL have not comprehended what kind of crisis we are in, this is not an equity crisis. Nobody argued that equity valuations cant go down further. This is a financial liquidity and credit crisis. And fact is that we have in this and the last century only experienced one more such crisis. After the government HEAVILY intervened the United States have experienced a subsequent economic growth period without example.
Quote from OldTrader:
I'm not going to re-read all your posts. If you've got any FACTS, present them. Up to now you've presented no facts regarding how it's going to worse without a plan than with the plan.
What you should have said here is YOU have never experiencd such a financial crisis. In fact, there have been many financial crises in history. Many have taken the market down more than what we're down from the highs right now. Hell, in 1987 we dropped 20% in one day. In the 1973-1974 recession, the Dow dropped 50%. The average stock though, if they survived, was down 80-90%.
Maybe we should just go back to 2000, from which the average tech stock, if it survived, lost most of it's value in a couple of years.
Or take a look at the Japanese market sometime back at it's peak around 1990. You might learn something from that one.
Maybe this is your first rodeo, it's not mine.
The currency markets are quite instructive on how well government intervention works. Maybe you remember some countries trying to support their currency...like England for instance when Soros was short, and broke them.
Trot your facts out son. We're waiting.
OldTrader