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A Letter Against the Bailout Plan
- Thread starter OldTrader
- Start date
All correct but why do we still point fingers? This is a thing of the past, happend, done. Let it be 100% fault of some greedy bankers. So what? We are in this all together. The real point is this: The majority of people entrust money to fund managers and banks. Those mostly long-only funds (be it equity, CDs, other interest rate products) will get absolutely killed should the market drop another 20-30% not in a matter of months but days or weeks without anything happening. Plus the cash bail out fund FDIC could get killed in a matter of days rather than weeks. People would line up at their banks to take out whatever they have in their accounts for fear of total loss. And this is just the beginning of the party. Think I draw too dark a picture? This is an entirely possible scenario and it may well happen without any form of intervention. This is what lawmakers, the Fed, the government at least understand. Something WILL be done and it will of course cost the tax payer initially. But its way better than doing nothing. So, why do we still debate whose fault it is? Why dont we think about whether there are any better ideas than what is currently on the table (besides doing nothing which I think is not a viable alternative). Plus, how would you position yourself regarding your view? I mentioned my position in an earlier post. Any other ideas/trades?
Quote from OldTrader:
Not quite. A specific set of taxpapers didn't fulfill their obligation. So the lender lost money, and passed it on to the government, who took out their salaries, and other costs, then passed it on to ALL of the taxpapers, most of whom fulfilled their obligation.
And therein is the problem. You seem to want to make this all of our faults, when in reality, it is only some of our faults.
OldTrader
Oldtrader, risking to repeat myself: Its your OWN money that is going down the drains. Anyone who holds cash in banks, CDs, long-only mutual funds (which includes the majority of Americans) is risking another huge devaluation/possible total loss by voting to do nothing. Sure, I understand and respect your stance but maybe you should as well respect that the majority of tax payers may rather pay usd 2000 (their approx. share of the 700bln package) than losing another 20-30 percent or possibly more in exchange for grinding their axe with Wall Street executives.
I think these are the alternatives that people should REALLY be faced with. Not some "lets blame someone" bullocks such as "do you want tax payer money be used to bail out bankers"? That was never the question nor will that ever happen, but to phrase it like that really kicks with the dumb majority of people.
the 700 bln fund will certainly floor mortgage securities, so the probability of breaking through those floors is very low. This in turn will stop the free-fall in bank shares, relax money markets, and add urgently needed liquidity to the system.
I think these are the alternatives that people should REALLY be faced with. Not some "lets blame someone" bullocks such as "do you want tax payer money be used to bail out bankers"? That was never the question nor will that ever happen, but to phrase it like that really kicks with the dumb majority of people.
the 700 bln fund will certainly floor mortgage securities, so the probability of breaking through those floors is very low. This in turn will stop the free-fall in bank shares, relax money markets, and add urgently needed liquidity to the system.
Quote from OldTrader:
It's certainly true that there are been many government interventions over time in the US markets. And I would argue that most of them have led to further crises, and have been more costly in the end than it would have been simply to let the market sort it out.
I think the point is that if we want to be socialists, let's at least have that argument. Let's put it to the American people. Let's not bullshit people. We want to socialize the key industries in this country, then let's have a vote.
I think if it were put to the American people that way, it would fail. Do you realize only 24% of the people are in favor of this plan? Again, the market has been quite good at sorting out this type of thing. Yeah, maybe it has to go lower. But the vultures are already lined up, ready to go, when they see the right price.
I'm prepared to buy cheap assets myself. But frankly, the price isn't there yet. I've bought many properties over the years on the courthouse steps. Right now, they aren't cheap enough. So let them fail. If they lose their house, they can go rent. I have some rentals for them. But don't make me pay for these deadbeats that couldn't, or wouldn't, handle their own responsibilities.
OldTrader
Quote from IluvVol:
the 700 bln fund will certainly floor mortgage securities, so the probability of breaking through those floors is very low.
How can you make that assertion when we still don't know the exact universe of "mortgage-related assets" that Paulson will buy with that money?
I've got zero faith that he's going to restrict these purchases to paper that's only one or two levels removed from the physical real estate they were written against.
you have all the rights to have a lack of faith. I have that faith also in the short term and I have put my money where my mouth is (see prior post on my last week's trade). By the way, looks like we are got this thing on the way and it will pass with high certainty. Looking forward to the open in this new week.
Quote from jprad:
How can you make that assertion when we still don't know the exact universe of "mortgage-related assets" that Paulson will buy with that money?
I've got zero faith that he's going to restrict these purchases to paper that's only one or two levels removed from the physical real estate they were written against.
Quote from IluvVol:
I have that faith also in the short term and I have put my money where my mouth is (see prior post on my last week's trade). By the way, looks like we are got this thing on the way and it will pass with high certainty. Looking forward to the open in this new week.
And there we have it. Another man who's been talking his book.
You're as morally bankrupt as the rest.
Sad...
Quote from IluvVol:
All correct but why do we still point fingers? This is a thing of the past, happend, done. Let it be 100% fault of some greedy bankers. So what? We are in this all together.
I don't know how many times I've heard this excuse to let these jackasses off the hook. The source (besides yourself) has always been a TV figure. They always say something like "This is our problem and everyone has a part in it." Well you all can just go dip yourself in bullcrap as far as I'm concerned because I had nothing to do with this crap. Don't project your guilt onto me jackasses. Pay for your mistakes, just like everybody else. And don't come whining about it. This whole situation is complete ass and we are going to let these fartlickers off the hook when they should no longer be in existence.
Haha, you are too funny. You think whatever I say here made the slightest difference to what others do? No, you got it all mixed up. I have my opinions, I weighted probabilities, and after careful consideration I put on a position. I dont need to talk any position because my position was guided by where the market is headed. If all you did is argue instead of trading then I guess thats your own decision. So, first you pointed fingers at all the subprime mortgage owners, then to all those evil bankers, now people who are opportunistic like me? Hmm, thought we are in a free market economy as many claim? Shame on you...
Quote from jprad:
And there we have it. Another man who's been talking his book.
You're as morally bankrupt as the rest.
Sad...
Why dont you profit from those fantastic markets by trading them, opportunities wont come like this for some time anymore. Instead you sit here with your big axe that you need to swing around.
Quote from sprstpd:
I don't know how many times I've heard this excuse to let these jackasses off the hook. The source (besides yourself) has always been a TV figure. They always say something like "This is our problem and everyone has a part in it." Well you all can just go dip yourself in bullcrap as far as I'm concerned because I had nothing to do with this crap. Don't project your guilt onto me jackasses. Pay for your mistakes, just like everybody else. And don't come whining about it. This whole situation is complete ass and we are going to let these fartlickers off the hook when they should no longer be in existence.
Quote from IluvVol:
Oldtrader, risking to repeat myself: Its your OWN money that is going down the drains. Anyone who holds cash in banks, CDs, long-only mutual funds (which includes the majority of Americans) is risking another huge devaluation/possible total loss by voting to do nothing. Sure, I understand and respect your stance but maybe you should as well respect that the majority of tax payers may rather pay usd 2000 (their approx. share of the 700bln package) than losing another 20-30 percent or possibly more in exchange for grinding their axe with Wall Street executives.
I think these are the alternatives that people should REALLY be faced with. Not some "lets blame someone" bullocks such as "do you want tax payer money be used to bail out bankers"? That was never the question nor will that ever happen, but to phrase it like that really kicks with the dumb majority of people.
the 700 bln fund will certainly floor mortgage securities, so the probability of breaking through those floors is very low. This in turn will stop the free-fall in bank shares, relax money markets, and add urgently needed liquidity to the system.
You are still making these sort of unsound arguments.
1) Can you say that 700B will NOT make long-only mutual funds goes down?
2) How can you be so sure 700B will put a floor on mortgage securities.
3) IT IS using taxpayers' money to bail out banks, and hence wall street executives.
Let them sink.
I know you bet on passing the bail out bill. You can go ahead and make your money. however, no sound argument can make that this bail out bill will solve anything.
Also, no one said nothing should be done, but the bail out bill is like a panic chicken flopping its wing. It is totally useless.