A crude awakening: the oil crash

  • Thread starter Thread starter schlap
  • Start date Start date
Quote from Indrionas:

First thing I look into when discussing a particular alternative energy is - what is the source of the energy? In the case of green-oil it is solar energy.

From here you can see the problems it brings. There are two main interconnected problems with solar energy:
1) it has limited potential (you cannot force sun to give more energy)
2) thus you need to use extremely large territories covered with solar energy equipment.

Now what kind of solar energy equipment does not matter. Be it algae based or photovoltaic modules. The most important characteristic is - efficiency. For example, the record in solar cell is 40% energy conversion efficiency by Boeing-Spectrolab. Algae bioreactor efficiency currently is only 15%. So you can see who's the winner. These numbers deal with the potential part.

Now the second important part is land related. I think these two quotes will speak for themselves:



and...
More...

Thanks for your help.

And...your solution is...your idea is...

Look, if you have no idea and no solution to the problem, then I'm afraid that you are just a fear monger.
Don't give that bullshit excuse about raising awareness, there are plenty already raising awareness.

We need leaders and solutions! Those that can lead will!

Those that can solve problems will!

Fear mongering fools should step aside.
 
Quote from RhinoGG:

Thanks for your help.

And...your solution is...your idea is...

Look, if you have no idea and no solution to the problem, then I'm afraid that you are just a fear monger.
Don't give that bullshit excuse about raising awareness, there are plenty already raising awareness.

We need leaders and solutions! Those that can lead will!

Those that can solve problems will!

Fear mongering fools should step aside.
More...



Lighten up, Rhino.


I thought Indrionas' post was very informative.


The alternative energy issue is a very vast subject. So any fact based education is appreciated.


Facts detailing the current limitations of these alternatives is essential to being fully informed.


Hopefully it will be from the pool of the fully informed that the leadership that you so passionately desire will emerge.
 
Quote from RhinoGG:

Thanks for your help.

And...your solution is...your idea is...

Look, if you have no idea and no solution to the problem, then I'm afraid that you are just a fear monger.
Don't give that bullshit excuse about raising awareness, there are plenty already raising awareness.

We need leaders and solutions! Those that can lead will!

Those that can solve problems will!

Fear mongering fools should step aside.
More...


No, I'm just saying that the most probable solution will be very very uncomfortable, i.e. cut down on consumption and standard of living. More like you will be forced to do that, than a solution.

While at the same time you think you can maintain your standard of living with current alternative energy sources, which is wishful thinking that has nothing to do with cold hard facts.

I'm sorry but you are just using rhetoric. You know that guy who "led" and "solved problems" in Germany in 1930s.
 
Alternative energy is in its infancy and the oill companies have kept it that way.

The first airplane that I ever saw had an open cockpit. In my early twenties, I worked on the X-15 research aircraft with a top speed of 8 times the speed of sound. Why all the progress. The military-industrial complex was behind it.

When I was in college, we studied solar energy generation and so why was there so very little progress. Because the concept is essentially worthless. I don't think so.
 
Quote from Indrionas:

You know that guy who "led" and "solved problems" in Germany in 1930s.
More...

Yes I do. So, you are saying that leaders and problem solvers; innovators and explorers should be categorized with his ilk. Gimme a break. But, bringing up "that guy in Germany in the 30's" sure does ring or fear. Should we hide under our covers now? Achtung! Der Kommissar is in town.
 
Quote from Indrionas:

First thing I look into when discussing a particular alternative energy is - what is the source of the energy? In the case of green-oil it is solar energy.

From here you can see the problems it brings. There are two main interconnected problems with solar energy:
1) it has limited potential (you cannot force sun to give more energy)
2) thus you need to use extremely large territories covered with solar energy equipment.

Now what kind of solar energy equipment does not matter. Be it algae based or photovoltaic modules. The most important characteristic is - efficiency. For example, the record in solar cell is 40% energy conversion efficiency by Boeing-Spectrolab. Algae bioreactor efficiency currently is only 15%. So you can see who's the winner. These numbers deal with the potential part.

Now the second important part is land related. I think these two quotes will speak for themselves:



and...
More...

Quote from RhinoGG:

Thanks for your help.

And...your solution is...your idea is...

Look, if you have no idea and no solution to the problem, then I'm afraid that you are just a fear monger.
Don't give that bullshit excuse about raising awareness, there are plenty already raising awareness.

We need leaders and solutions! Those that can lead will!

Those that can solve problems will!

Fear mongering fools should step aside.
More...

There are already solutions to the lanspace requirements in the pipeline concentrator technology is a first step in some case increasing energy per sq ft %40 that I know of. I would not be surprised if that percentage increases rapidly in the next few years.
This would just mean that the area for the separate solar panels would shrink as they would be concentrating a wider area of energy down similar to a magnifying glass which does not need to be that big to focus energy.
The amount of land would also be minimal if it was distributed on everyones roof. I am sure the square footage of roof in this country would make those numbers look minuscule.
 
Algae Biodiesel vs. Solar Panels:
http://fatknowledge.blogspot.com/2008/06/algae-biodiesel-vs-solar-panels.html


Personally I think solar panels is the future if they manage to reduce its costs to acceptable levels. Even better solution would be fusion power, but it's still in sci-fi category and we may not see it in our lifetimes.

In addition, those biofuels are direct competitors to humans. What do you prefer: cheap food or cheap biofuel? I don't give a shit about cars if I can barely afford food. (this relates to grain biofuels)
 
Quote from Indrionas:

Algae Biodiesel vs. Solar Panels:
http://fatknowledge.blogspot.com/2008/06/algae-biodiesel-vs-solar-panels.html


Personally I think solar panels is the future if they manage to reduce its costs to acceptable levels. Even better solution would be fusion power, but it's still in sci-fi category and we may not see it in our lifetimes.

In addition, those biofuels are direct competitors to humans. What do you prefer: cheap food or cheap biofuel? I don't give a shit about cars if I can barely afford food. (this relates to grain biofuels)
More...

Food grade grains have not been successfully farmed in arid, dry, rocky and sandy deserts, such that make up most of the southwest. No "food" farms exist there, have a fly over someday and you'll see that its a waste land now, and always will be. The people producing Green-Oil (algae to oil to gasoline) NOT Bio-diesel! are doing so in this unwanted, infertile land. It makes sense; use NON arable lands and NON potable water, abundant sunlight AND endless supply of CO2. All in an area NOT occupied by humans, cattle, pigs, wheat, corn, apples & oranges.

It may not be enough to replace the vast amount of Oil we consume now, it is an Alternative, that should continue to be explored. There will be NO ONE single replacement for Crude Oil. The future likely holds an array of technologies that will power our planet, this Algae to Oil to Gasoline is ONE of many. Discounting and arguing why it cannot or should not be done reminds me of those thought Edison was crazy. Just how long, and how many failed attempts before he found the correct filament that produces the light bulb. Just think if he just gave up because others said is could not, should not be done. Same goes for all of history's great inventors.

A quote from the link you provided.

"This analysis also doesn't take into account the economics of the two systems. Nor does it take into account that biodiesel allows for quicker refueling times, greater range between refueling and can more easily be integrated into the current transportation system. When those are taken into account biodiesel is much more competitive, especially in the short term."
 
http://www.sapphireenergy.com/product

Sapphire Energy has built a revolutionary platform that uses photosynthetic microorganisms to produce a renewable, high-value replacement for fossil fuel petroleum. This domestic crude oil requires only sunlight, CO2 and non-potable water – and can be produced at massive scale on non-arable land.

Sapphire’s technology and team of renowned experts give the company the unique ability to scale biological systems and produce transportation fuels, including high-octane gasoline, to ASTM certification standards.

The company’s final products will have the same chemical composition as gasoline and will be completely compatible with the existing refining, distribution and fleet infrastructure.

Not ethanol, not biodiesel. Renewable gasoline.

http://www.greencrudeproduction.com/solution.html
The Solution
The world needs a radical new solution. Not fossil fuels. Not biodiesel. And not ethanol or any other crop- or sugar-based biofuels that have a direct impact on food prices, the destruction of cropland, fresh water reservoirs and the rainforest.

Picture a domestic economy built on completely renewable, carbon-neutral products produced directly from CO2 and sunlight, efficiently generating a new kind of crude oil from one of the world's oldest, most adaptable plants: algae.

Introducing Green Crude Production.

Products and processes in this category:

are made directly from CO2 using photosynthesis
do not result in biodiesel or ethanol
enhance, replace petroleum-based products
are ASTM compliant
do not require food crops or agricultural land
are carbon neutral and renewable
support domestic energy independence

And, to make the market really work, the process must be economically scalable and conform to the existing petroleum infrastructure, from refinement through distribution and the retail supply chain.
 
There is also a company called Blacklight Power who there was a story about recently called Blacklight Power Inc.

He says he has found a new process to release energy from hydrogen molecules. Normally I would discount such claims as I am sure CNN Money would but the very interesting thing is their board of directors is full of very distinguished people such as:

General McPeak

Chief of Staff of the Air Force from November 1990 to October 1994

MICHAEL H. JORDAN

Retired Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of CBS Corporation (formerly Westinghouse Electric Corporation)

SHELBY T. BREWER, Ph.D.

Assistant Secretary of (Nuclear) Energy under Reagan

Vice Admiral Kalleres

MERRILL A. MCPEAK, GENERAL USAF (Ret)

This is just a few the whole board of directors looks like that. He claims that he has a 50kw prototype that when scaled should cost around 1c a KW/hr.

I really do not know what to think when there are claims like his combined with a Board of Directors like that. I find it very to believe that many very well respected people are being tricked or lying. He says that he will be up and running plants within two years in partnership with electrical companies and other startups.

It will be very interesting to see what comes of that in the next few years.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top