A cautionary tale for system developers

crisis?crisis · Feb 21, 2008

Quote from HolyGrail:

The same can be said about your company. Why are you talking with him in the first place if you knew the chances were nil? Why did it get this far?

Excellent question! Poor judgment on my part.

However, I didn't know the chances were nil at the beginning. Jerry talks a good game, up until the point where he becomes condescending and follows it up by asking for "significant upfront money". That's where I had to laugh at myself for being such a fool.

It wasn't until an earleir post on this thread that Jerry admitted that his system was too slow for day trading. It never would have worked for us anyhow.

crisis?crisis · Feb 21, 2008

Quote from GTS:

How did these two ever hook-up in the first place? Who contacted who (and based on what)?

Looks like a match made in hell.

Edit: Never mind, I figured it out: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1775085#post1775085

Yep, you found it. It was my last ditch effort to breathe some life back into our trading application that had been gathering dust.

I admit that it was poor judgment on my part. I just never thought that it might jeapordize my company. It wasn't until near the end that I suspected that Jerry might actually do something as boneheaded as trying to tarnish our reputation after we cut our ties with him.

GTS · Feb 21, 2008

Quote from crisis?crisis:

Yep, you found it. It was my last ditch effort to breathe some life back into our trading application that had been gathering dust.

I admit that it was poor judgment on my part. I just never thought that it might jeapordize my company. It wasn't until near the end that I suspected that Jerry might actually do something as boneheaded as trying to tarnish our reputation after we cut our ties with him.

After reading that thread I am surprised that you still tried to work with Jerry. 1GB of executable code? Sorry, I'm with sjfan from that thread and call BS.

The mangled "The Prediction Company" story also didnt inspire confidence.

crisis?crisis · Feb 21, 2008

Quote from GTS:

After reading that thread I am surprised that you still tried to work with Jerry. 1GB of executable code? Sorry, I'm with sjfan from that thread and call BS.

The mangled "The Prediction Company" story also didnt inspire confidence.

Okay, maybe he doesn't talk such a good game. My bad!

He offered to work up a model for us with no obligation and at no cost to us. I thought, what the heck, what's there to lose? Little did I know...

crisis?crisis · Feb 21, 2008

Just for the record, the offer I foolishly made on that other thread is officially OFF THE TABLE.

Quote from crisis?crisis:

If somebody comes up with an intraday strategy/script that allows our application to make money. We'd be willing to cut them in on the action.

Please do not contact me with any scripts or any other trading strategies. I'm just trying to mitigate the damage already done.

Jerry030 · Feb 21, 2008

Quote from GTS:

How did these two ever hook-up in the first place? Who contacted who (and based on what)?

Looks like a match made in hell.

Edit: Never mind, I figured it out: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1775085#post1775085

Mr. Crisis contacted me with a private message.

Jerry030

Jerry030 · Feb 21, 2008

Quote from crisis?crisis:

I admit that it was poor judgment on my part. I just never thought that it might jeapordize my company..

Mr. Crisis,

Do you moonlight as a speech writer for the current crop of presidential candidates? You ability as 'spin" could get some really big bucks in the current election cycle.

Your company has never been identified, you have not been identified. Where is the threat to reputation?

If you were smart and had no need to find another system designer to attempt to rescue your failed trading platform, you would have said nothing is response to my original post.

It's a bit like responding to a rumor that a member of congress was up to no good in the third stall on the left in the bathroom at the Minneapolis airport with the statement that you were actually in the second stall from the left and it was a totally platonic sharing of the stall with an old friend.

Jerry030

Jerry030 · Feb 21, 2008

Quote from GTS:

1GB of executable code? Sorry, I'm with sjfan from that thread and call BS.

The mangled "The Prediction Company" story also didnt inspire confidence.

GTS,

With what expertise do you speak in regard to the total amount of code that would be automatically generated by a neural network application to creating 28 separate models?

How much code is typically generated by your neural network applications to trade one market?

Do you even know what a neural network is?

Do you have a clue about this technology?

My guess is: never have, not really and no.

Read the book "The Predictors" or the article in Wired magazine if you want more information on how some really smart people used chaos theory and soft computing to make a fortune in the market.

Jerry 030

GTS · Feb 21, 2008

Quote from Jerry030:

With what expertise do you speak in regard to the total amount of code that would be automatically generated by a neural network application to creating 28 separate models?

I have many years of paid software development experience under my belt and know that unless you have redefined what an "executable" is, it is highly unlikely that you have 1GB of machine executable code. And yes that includes application generated machine code.

Lest you forget your original quote: "a single model for a single market when exported to C++ may be close to 1 GB of executable code".

So why are you talking about 28 separate models now? You said a single model would generate that much code.

sjfan · Feb 21, 2008

Quote from GTS:

I have many years of paid software development experience under my belt and know that unless you have redefined what an "executable" is, it is highly unlikely that you have 1GB of machine executable code. And yes that includes application generated machine code.

Lest you forget your original quote: "a single model for a single market when exported to C++ may be close to 1 GB of executable code".

So why are you talking about 28 separate models now? You said a single model would generate that much code.

Give it up. I did in the last thread. This jerry fella likes to attack anyone who points out the stupidity and inconsistencies of his statement by asking for qualifications. Those of us who do know this stuff really don't want to argue with someone who is so clearly misusing terms that his own lack of qualification is glaring.

An ensemble model of 28 NN predictors ... yeah - aside from the list of technological objections (some of which comes to: there's not a computer on earth powerful enough to do what he's claiming), that's pretty much the perfect curvefitter. Completely useless.

Oh - this thread should have ended with the "encrypted" execution codes business. I don't necessarily buy into what crisis?crisis is saying, but Jerry is all bullshit. Seriously? If he built what he claimed, the code logic would be so complicated that there is no possible way to reverse engineer it with a decomplier.