$73,000 for a 1 night stay in hospital because of a snake bite

Quote from spinn:

Why dont crooked drs learn to intertpret the tstsinstead OF GTTING A KICKBACK ANd Blaming the unnecessary testing on lawyers/

The logic of that statement overwhelms my simple mind.

Doctors are crooked..

Doctors blame unnecessary tests on lawyers

Doctors are getting a kickback on those tests they can't interpret correctly that are unecessary.

damn we are all F***ed. Don't go to a doctor, go to a pharmacist! they won't screw u and they will happily prescribe you anything because they have a huge conflict of interest - they make money of that prescription!!!
 
Looking over the posts on this thread I would think that unless you have full guaranteed payout insurance you would be crazy to have an operation in the USA.

Comparing what Scataphagos paid for an identical operation to myself there is a $87, 640 difference.

What about getting a flight to Hong Kong for a few thousand bucks , get operated on in a 5star hospital, recover in a 5star hotel and still save a fortune? Enough for a great new car, repay a chunk of the mortgage or save for retirement.

Even better deals are available at places like the Bumrungrad Hospital in Bangkok.

An $87,000+ difference for an operation is an insulting joke.
 
As a practicing physician for the last 15 years, currently treating patients full-time in hospitals, I have several comments after reading all of the posts in this thread:

The threat of a malpractice suit causes me to order at least twice as many tests as I would normally consider necessary. Health care costs could be dramatically decreased if the threat of malpractice were reduced.

Although you see big medical bills, only about 25% of what is charged in hospitals is ever collected. In fact, hospitals in my area may start going bankrupt from the flood of unemployed and uninsured patients coming into the ER and into the hospital who cannot pay their bills.

An unhealthy lifestyle causes more health problems than anything else. Obesity, tobacco, alcohol and drug abuse lead to a large percentage of the health care costs generated in the US. Some countries with socialized medicine would not allow a patient to have a knee replacement who weighs 300 pounds until they lose weight or allow a person to have heart bypass surgery who still smokes, but we do it here every day.

The majority of health care costs occur in the last year of life. Hospitals are full of patients in their 80s and older who are demented and bedridden with no quality of life. Yet we spend hundreds of thousands of dollars keeping them alive. This is a serious moral issue that will likely be impossible to resolve.
 
Quote from 11Blade:

the "practice" of medicine is by no means perfect and neither are the best doctors on this planet who also "OFTEN" misdiagnose.

When you realize that optimizing the levels of two key vitamins in the body will cure, prevent, or improve the patient's condition better than most all other established treatments, worrying about the right diagnosis becomes insignificant.

http://orthomed.com/titrate.htm
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/research.shtml
 
Try taking 3-5 grams of ascorbic acid or any ascorbate salt, repeat every few hours. I doubt your rectum will be intact after a couple doses! Thats why the effects of IV Vitamin C can't be replicated using oral administration.

Quote from Matt8200:


Also note that more than a few Vitamin C capsules are required. Klenner reports that "350 mg to 700 mg per Kg. body weight given intravenously". Slightly more would most likely be required orally as all of it won't be absorbed. For a 200lb person this would equate to 31 to 63 1 gram capsules.

Can you provide any references to your claim that this treatment does not work and I would be dead within a few days?

As to why it works:
http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/klenner-fr-j_appl_nutr-1971-v23-n3&4-p61.htm
 
Quote from Matt8200:

There is no question in my mind that it is proven to be the most effective treatment not only through the scientific literature but through my personal experiences with Vitamin C. I would not hesitate if I was bitten by a snake to treat myself by consuming Vitamin C to bowel tolerance levels.

Also note that more than a few Vitamin C capsules are required. Klenner reports that "350 mg to 700 mg per Kg. body weight given intravenously". Slightly more would most likely be required orally as all of it won't be absorbed. For a 200lb person this would equate to 31 to 63 1 gram capsules.

Can you provide any references to your claim that this treatment does not work and I would be dead within a few days?

As to why it works:
http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/klenner-fr-j_appl_nutr-1971-v23-n3&4-p61.htm

The article mentions one case of one individual. This is not evidence of anything. She might have recovered just as well with or without Vit C. Very little venom may have been injected. Who knows ?

This sort of bs is grossly misleading and downright dangerous.

The obligation is on proponents to show that Vit C treatment does work not for me to show that it does not.
 
Quote from cinnabar:

Try taking 3-5 grams of ascorbic acid or any ascorbate salt, repeat every few hours. I doubt your rectum will be intact after a couple doses! Thats why the effects of IV Vitamin C can't be replicated using oral administration.

Obviously you didn't read this paper:http://orthomed.com/titrate.htm Dr. Cathcart found that some patients could tolerate 200+ grams orally per day when extremely ill.

And yes I have tried it many times. When I am healthy I will bowel tolerance with a single 2 gram dose of ascorbic acid. After a night of alcohol consumptive I routinely take 6 to 10 grams before I go to bed. When my hay fever is really bad I can tolerate 25 grams a day.
 
Quote from dcraig:

The article mentions one case of one individual. This is not evidence of anything.

I have posted many reference read them all.

More case studies:
Bites, Toxins, Allergies

In another Tri-State Medical Journal of December, 1957, he outlined the physiology and treatment of Black Widow Spider poisoning in a case history. Some of those bitten are not affected at all because the spider was out of poison, but some can be devastated and may die, partly because of poor resistance but also due to the quantity injected.

It can be confused with pancreatitis, renal colic, food poisoning, tetanus, angina, bowel obstruction, pneumonia, perforated ulcer. The abdominal wall muscles become rigid, the victims have cold sweat, their temperature and blood pressure shoot up, they vomit, have muscle twitches and spasms, cyanosis, chills, convulsions and delirium. The painful muscle spasms occur within minutes of the original bite. The cramps occur in all the large muscles of the body; the victims roll and toss and moan in agony.

Until someone used calcium gluconate, there were 90 ineffective treatments. An anti-venom is on the market, but severe reactions and even death have been attributed to its use.

The treatment Dr. Klenner suggests is his friend, Vitamin C, 350 mg per kg of body weight intravenously along with calcium gluconate.

His three and a half year old patient had been getting worse for 24 hours with abdominal cramps which the parents assumed were due to food poisoning. She became quieter, feverish, constipated and her abdomen was exquisitely tender. She was becoming stuporous.

Dr Klenner noted the red, swollen area around her naval, and two tiny spots about one eighth of an inch apart were noted in the middle: the fang marks of a Black Widow Spider. He gave one gram of calcium gluconate and 4 grams of Vitamin C intravenously. In 6 hours she was more responsive, and her temperature had dropped from 103 degrees to 101 degrees and she was given another four grams I.V.

In another six hours, her temperature was but 100 degrees, and she could swallow fluids. The next day she was active, and 50% of the discoloration had disappeared. She received another 4 grams of C intravenously and 3 grams intramuscularly. At home she swallowed one gram of C every three to four hours. An enema produced a bloody return. When she recovered, she remembered brushing “a big black bug off her stomach,” before she took ill.

Dr. Klenner had treated eight cases of Black Widow Spider bites. “It is criminal to give these patients an opiate to relieve their pain, for in so doing you might add to their distress and actually precipitate a fatality.”

“Some ascorbic acid behaves much like calcium in the body, and also acts synergistically with it, we elected to observe its action.” The child was destined to die. “Some physicians would stand by and see their patient die rather than use ascorbic acid because in their finite minds it exists only as a vitamin.”

Dr. Klenner was very confident about the benefits of intravenous Vitamin C to treat the poisonous effects of insects and reptiles,. He felt all emergency rooms should be adequately stocked. He used sodium ascorbate, 7.5 grams in 30 ml. The syringes are 5 to 60 cc. The needles are 20 gauge (big), one inch long to 31 gauge (I have trouble believing this) one inch long. I get “miracle like responses.”

Case 1: An eighteen-year-old female was treated just twenty minutes after a hornet bite. She was covered with hives and had shortness of breath and difficulty swallowing. In minutes after twelve grams of sodium ascorbate intravenously were pushed in with a 50 cc syringe her allergic symptoms were gone.

Dr. Klenner took ten grams of C dissolved in water orally and again in fifteen minutes to counteract the stings of fifteen yellow jackets. No symptoms.

Snakebite: He reported on a four-year-old girl bitten by a Highland Moccasin. She had severe pain in her leg and was vomiting within twenty minutes after the bite. Dr. Klenner gave four grams of C intravenously and within half an hour she had stopped crying and could now drink orangeade and began to laugh. “I’m all right now.” She slept well all night, but because of a slight fever and tenderness, Dr. Klenner gave her another four grams intravenously and again that late afternoon. No antibiotics and no anti-serum were necessary.

Dr. Klenner had worked the schedule out on dogs and published it in hunting and fishing magazines. He has had many testimonials from satisfied doctors.

“All the venom that will be encountered exists as you see the patient. It is important to give sufficient sodium ascorbate to neutralize the bite. The more you give; the faster will be the cure. We now routinely give 10 to 15 grams sodium ascorbate depending on the weight of the victim. Then as much of the drug as can be tolerated by mouth is given, usually 5 grams, every four hours.”

Usually without the use of Vitamin C patients are stuck in the hospital requiring hot packs, antibiotics, anti-serum and nursing care. Many end up with much scarring.

He recited the case of a man who was treated at another emergency room. The doctor tried to cut out the local bite area.

When Dr. Klenner saw him it was badly infected and the temperature was 104°. Fifteen grams of C intravenously twice daily, 5 grams of C orally every four hours. Penicillin injected for the infection. He was back to work in seven days.

“Sodium ascorbate will cure any type of snake bite.” The amounts and the speed of injection are critical. Forty to 60 grams intravenously as a starter. Klenner cites the 6500 deaths a year from snake bites, but many more from insects, bees, spider, plants and some caterpillars. They produce formic acid, histamine and specific toxin albumins. Some are neurotoxins; some cause capillary damage and hemorrhage. When cells are damaged proteins are deaminized, producing histamine and other toxic products; shock may occur. These deaminizing enzymes from the damaged cells are inhibited by Vitamin C. The pH of cells changes when cells are damaged; enzymes become destructive instead of constructive. C reverses this. Vitamin C is reduced in the serum of those in shock. 350-700 mg per kg body weight is the saving intravenous dose. In children up to two grams can be given in each of several areas (a twenty kg five year old could get two grams in each of four sites. Ice before and after the injection would control the pain).

He reports a case of a bite by a Puss caterpillar. The patient was going into shock with asphyxia and cyanosis. Dr Klenner whipped out his trusty syringe, filled it with 12 grams of C, squirted it into the man’s veins and before he was done, the patient was improved enough to exclaim, “Thank God.” And thank Dr. Klenner for figuring out what to do; the man would have died from shock if it had not been for the rapid infusion of C. Again, Dr. Klenner’s maxim adds weight: Give the C while pondering the diagnosis.
http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinical_guide_1988.htm
 
Intravenous ascorbic acid as a treatment for severe jellyfish stings.

Kumar S, Miranda-Massari JR, Gonzalez MJ, Riordan HD.

Wong & Ung Clinic, Lot 5, Jalan Bunga Anggerek, Federal Territory of Labuan, Malaysia.

We report a case of jellyfish envenomation in a 39 year old male. He was stung extensively on both lower limbs by an unidentified jellyfish. This occurred in shallow waters of a beach in the vicinity of Labuan Island, Malaysia. The patient received ambulatory treatment with parenteral and oral ascorbate with remarkable recovery.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15377062
 
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