666...the Devils Moving Average

Quote from axeman:

"Also, the argument against bad design has little to do with what we're talking about, as you know, since it is post-Cambrian-explosion. "


It has everything to do with it.
If you assert the universe is designed by this super powerful
mega intelligent creator, then a universe full of FLAWS is
contradictory to this idea.
More...

Notice that you have no design "flaws" on the table for pre-Cambrian-Explosion events. You only have objections in the much more subjective world of the biological sciences.

This is a logical discontinuity. The universe cannot be unflawed for its first 13.6 billion years and grossly flawed thereafter.

If there is a God, then all would be unflawed during both time periods. If there is no God, then all would be flawed druing both time periods.

Your argument does not make sense.
 
Quote from ShoeshineBoy:



Notice that you have no design "flaws" on the table for pre-Cambrian-Explosion events. You only have objections in the much more subjective world of the biological sciences.

This is a logical discontinuity. The universe cannot be unflawed for its first 13.6 billion years and grossly flawed thereafter.

If there is a God, then all would be unflawed during both time periods. If there is no God, then all would be flawed druing both time periods.

Your argument does not make sense.
More...

Design flaw is a weak argument. How would we know that God did not intend for there to be a flaw?

The whole concept of flaw is an invention of man, not in nature.

The concept of flaw exists in opposition to the concept of perfection, and the idea of what that perfection would be.

Perfectly flawed is still perfect, by design or not.
 
You decide to join the conversation after **100+** pages
and now that I have wasted FAR TOO MUCH time on
this thread your going to fling ridiculous arguments
out at the last minute and CLAIM that I am running from the truth?

Get REAL guy. You need to first post a real argument FIRST
before you can claim that I am running away.

Your arguments to date have been the weakest on this
thread yet. I prefer to address the theists that have
posted better arguments than the FALLACIOUS postings
you have given us so far.

You are on my ignore list for your ridiculous pompous assertion
that I am running away from your NONSENSE.

Learn to argue without so much bullshit in each post and
maybe the people here will take you seriously.

I AM OUT OF TIME to pay attention to your fallaciously loaded nonsense you have posted to date.

I may address the other theists in the future, but you don't even deserve a reply.


Signing off. Finally.



peace

axeman


Quote from ARogueTrader:



It is common, and human nature to run from the truth.
More...
 
Quote from ARogueTrader:



Design flaw is a weak argument. How would we know that God did not intend for there to be a flaw?

The whole concept of flaw is an invention of man, not in nature.

The concept of flaw exists in opposition to the concept of perfection, and the idea of what that perfection would be.

Perfectly flawed is still perfect, by design or not.
More...

This is a good way to put it.
 
Quote from axeman:

You decide to join the conversation after **100+** pages
and now that I have wasted FAR TOO MUCH time on
this thread your going to fling ridiculous arguments
out at the last minute and CLAIM that I am running from the truth?

Get REAL guy. You need to first post a real argument FIRST
before you can claim that I am running away.

Your arguments to date have been the weakest on this
thread yet. I prefer to address the theists that have
posted better arguments than the FALLACIOUS postings
you have given us so far.

You are on my ignore list for your ridiculous pompous assertion
that I am running away from your NONSENSE.

Learn to argue without so much bullshit in each post and
maybe the people here will take you seriously.

I AM OUT OF TIME to pay attention to your fallaciously loaded nonsense you have posted to date.

I may address the other theists in the future, but you don't even deserve a reply.


Signing off. Finally.



peace

axeman
More...

Keep signing off as much as you want. Fact is, even if you are not in denial, you are having an extreme emotional response to what I have said.....anyone can see that.

You have issues, baggage, and wounding concerning God.

Your emotional responses, tone, etc. reveal this to any dispassionate observer.

You have a need to capitalize letters to get a point across, akin to having to shout.

Very emotional reactions from one who claims to be so logical and rational.

A rational response would have been:

I disagree with your assertions.

Your choice is to run yelling and slam the door and act like a child.
 
ARogueTrader, ShoeshineBoy, and Marketsurfer - You have all made very wise observations as to Axes' antics and reasons compeling him to do so. I thought I might share some insights into his predicament that have come up during these discussions.

Several years ago Axes' mother decided,when she was pregnant with our dear Axe, that being an unusual and strong woman she would give birth to him while standing up.(like a giraffe) When he first came out head first(which was normal) he fell hard to the floor and hit on his head. There didn't seem to be much damage at first but in later development some strange things began to appear. The part of his brain that was capable of love(especially God) was damaged but as body parts do sometimes, other parts increase to compensate for the damaged part. The part that increased was the part that housed the need to always be right, the need to be seen as smarter than God, and the need to prove to the world that the first two were true. At the time of the birth his mother had contracted with a christian midwife to catch him before he hit the floor but the midwife was detained in a church bus accident and didn't arrive to save Axie. Also at a young age he displayed a strange and compelling afinity for pink unicorns which he was never able to outgrow.(This seems to be a very widespread and common symptom among atheists, almost to the point of being cookie cutter)
So with all this history you can see why Axe feels he was let down by God and all churchdom. We must all be concerned for him and cut him some slack as you can see he has had a pretty rough time. He seems to think that he is okay but even that is so sad.
 
Quote from ARogueTrader:



Design flaw is a weak argument. How would we know that God did not intend for there to be a flaw?

The whole concept of flaw is an invention of man, not in nature.



Perfectly flawed is still perfect, by design or not.
More...


i disagree with you on this point , rogue. design flaws exist and they are not inventions of man. your last line makes no sense at all. even bible believers believe that there are flaws due to the fallen nature of man. your semantic play is getting old.

surfer
 
You know you have won the argument when the theist
has to resort to the most personal of attacks, since he
has no more reasonable ground to stand on.

Thanks for conceding the debate in such a professional manner.

We're impressed.

Doubter is also on my ignore list now.
I see just what a waste of time this really is now.



peace

axeman


Quote from Doubter:

ARogueTrader, ShoeshineBoy, and Marketsurfer - You have all made very wise observations as to Axes' antics and reasons compeling him to do so. I thought I might share some insights into his predicament that have come up during these discussions.

Several years ago Axes' mother decided,when she was pregnant with our dear Axe, that being an unusual and strong woman she would give birth to him while standing up.(like a giraffe) When he first came out head first(which was normal) he fell hard to the floor and hit on his head. There didn't seem to be much damage at first but in later development some strange things began to appear. The part of his brain that was capable of love(especially God) was damaged but as body parts do sometimes, other parts increase to compensate for the damaged part. The part that increased was the part that housed the need to always be right, the need to be seen as smarter than God, and the need to prove to the world that the first two were true. At the time of the birth his mother had contracted with a christian midwife to catch him before he hit the floor but the midwife was detained in a church bus accident and didn't arrive to save Axie. Also at a young age he displayed a strange and compelling afinity for pink unicorns which he was never able to outgrow.(This seems to be a very widespread and common symptom among atheists, almost to the point of being cookie cutter)
So with all this history you can see why Axe feels he was let down by God and all churchdom. We must all be concerned for him and cut him some slack as you can see he has had a pretty rough time. He seems to think that he is okay but even that is so sad.
More...
 
Quote from marketsurfer:




i disagree with you on this point , rogue. design flaws exist and they are not inventions of man. your last line makes no sense at all. even bible believers believe that there are flaws due to the fallen nature of man. your semantic play is getting old.

surfer
More...

Design flaws exist when there is a creator who had a design in mind, and the creation is flawed relative to that creation's design.

Again, flaw is understood relative to a non-flaw. No concept of perfection, no concept of flaw.

The question is, if the universe evolved without design, there can be no real flaw. Again, flaw implies that it is less than was designed to be.

In the same way that disorder and chaos are understood relative to order, either these ideas of chaos/order...flaw/perfection...right/wrong exist in a state independent of human mind, or they are simply projections of the human mind onto that which is outside of the mind. If flaw is only a concept and not a reality independent of human thought, then design flaw is simply not true, as it is dependent on human mind for its existence. Something that is true always is true, and not subject to human concepts...by definition.

When we talk about creation, the physical universe, that we believe exists independent of man, this idea of design flaw only makes sense if there was a designer of the universe, and until such time that you met with that designer, how would you know what is "flaw" and what was intended.

Ever see a Persian rug with a flaw? It is intentional, thus a perfect flaw, and a perfect work of the designer.

There are writings of many spiritual people in the past who claim that the only flaw is in man's mind, an illusion, that in reality the design is perfect, and everything is happening according to a perfectly orderly system of cause and effect. No mistakes whatsoever.

The Bible says man is fallen from a state of Grace due to original sin, but how do we know that the fall from Grace and subsequent happenings are not according to the perfect plan of God and part of the process of evolution toward unity with God?

Did God create a flawed Adam and Eve who would be tempted, or did he plan to give them perfect free will to make their own decisions, knowing all along that they would fall, giving them a chance to regain that state of Grace and thus have an even greater appreciation for that Grace and Glory?

Or is it all going exactly according to plan, a perfect plan with no flaws.
 
Quote from axeman:

You know you have won the argument when the theist
has to resort to the most personal of attacks, since he
has no more reasonable ground to stand on.

Thanks for conceding the debate in such a professional manner.

We're impressed.

Doubter is also on my ignore list now.
I see just what a waste of time this really is now.



peace

axeman
More...

It is such a waste of time that "I have to tell everyone what a waste of time it is."

As above, so below.

Can you imagine Clint Eastwood putting out a press release saying:

"The critics of my last film are on my ignore list now."




I think the ostrich had the original ignore list.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top