You're gonna give me a headache right before bed! I want to comment, but I've got to sign off now...I've got a preschooler that will up in less than six hours...
666...the Devils Moving Average
- Thread starter crackhead
- Start date
Spot on observation.
Ever notice how as soon as God is brought up on ET, it's sure money that the same 3 muskateers, Stu, axeman and, the most obnoxious (and intolerable) little git of them all, Gordon Gekko, simply CANNOT RESIST wading in with their wafer thin, "rational" pseudo-debunking (though they obviously think it holds great substance). And then they pretend they're intellectually and emotionally detached from the discussion. LOL. Embarassingly transparent.
Shoeshine Boy, I wouldn't bother wasting my time with these pretenders. They aren't interested in discussing anything, evaluating alternative points of view. Their minds were made up long ago. Obviously the possibility of any validity in opposing viewpoints scares the pants off them, so they show absolutely no willingness whatsoever to treat the issue to the complex investigation it requires, rather they retreat to their cute, but laughably simplistic, one-liners about "other gods" and "unicorns". So much for being "free thinkers".
there's your problem right there. you are not alone. btw, yes, it does sound crazy!
even GG himself was taken to church by a strongly religious grandmother a few times as a young impressionable boy. luckily my father stepped in eventually and saved my mind.
LOL
actually, my beliefs are continually shaped by science as man learns. i'll go with whatever science discovers.
your mind was probably made up at birth by someone else. i feel sorry for you.
Can I put the same money on you turning up alfonso? You don't particularly sound emotionally detached yourself, if you don't mind me saying.
So if shoeshine or any one else makes a categorical statement on the ET board such as "...it matches the astronomical and fossil record perfectly" then no one is to question such obvious nonsense? Everyone is supposed to sit quietly and make no response, just blindly accept everything being stated about religion as true, no matter what?? Unable to voice their opinion because alfonso has decreed so not to do?
Scaring the pants off whom and why should validity bother anyone. It's the lack of religious validity which seems to scare religionists into the retreat of un willingness to consider alternatives which seem to hold a verisimilar rationale within the universe humanity finds itself.
The posters you mention along with others have pointed out essential queries to the many absolute absurdities raised and offered as "the truth". There are plenty of posts which attempt to address the questions which scream at anyone who uses an ounce of inquiry or curiosity at the endless absolutes postulated by religion and the religious.
There are few standpoints if any which seem to wish to refuse people their religion as a belief, but surely it is reasonable to refute demands which declare goD IS when there is just as much similar evidence to suggest unicorn IS. 'I believe goD IS' would be fair and reasonable as would 'I believe unicorn IS' or 'I believe zeus IS'. They all seem to have a standardized interchangeable level of credibility.
I get the impression shoeshine felt he was involved in a civil dialogue with axeman, but your response is to hand wave it all that away as cute laughably simplistic one liners.
Perhaps you might explain just what "complex investigation" is required. Maybe you will be kind enough to point out, just what it is that is so complex about religion?
I notice your sig [corollay: the world ain't what they tell you it is.] May I ask.. who are they? Couldn't they just as likely be religious apologists? Or is that just another simplistic, one-liner.
go back and read axeman's replies to this; he nailed it. i don't see why you keep making the same claims after reading what axeman said. he explained it perfectly and it's not even debatable.
HA!! talk about IRONIC!!
hey, alfonso, THE WORLD ISN'T HOW THE BIBLE SAYS IT IS!! how's that for a shocker??
(before you attack me with my signature, yes, i know my signature USED TO apply to me, too.)
If there is a mathematical improbability that the universe would exist within a precise combination, then the math is inappropriate or incomplete ... because the universe and life DOES exist.
So the math is not reflecting an understanding for the proposition. Therefore you cannot reliably use math (as known) to prove the chances against.. evidently it is patently flawed or incomplete for this purpose.
It is wrong to state the odds in math as no one knows what the mathematical chances FOR life or the universe are. Information is incomplete and unknown, so there is no way you can use math, (as reliable and efficient as it is, for a vast understanding of many things ) as a measure against the chances. For all we know chance may be a zillion for and 42 to 1 against.
As you don't use a rule to weigh something, likewise a method not yet fully understood could well offer a more complete measure of things.
For instance, one single uncaused cause might be the "missing math" which renders the chances as mathematically inevitable. Infinite uncased causes might make a universe and life completely unavoidable. Quantum mechanics might be the "math" which shows uncaused cause from particle pairs.
Or you may use an unsupported, unconnected, contradictory, obsure, nonintrinsic method. For example... religion or maybe flower arranging.
Superficially using mathematics might appear the same to that used to asses odds against winning a national lottery, but all the information IS known about a lottery, so the comparison is false. However it is possible to envisage where the similarities suggest "the chances against are minute without an intelligent creator" argument falls over.
A person might be told he wont or can't win against all the mathematical evidence... BUT then he wins (the universe comes into existence) even though all the mathematical odds are against it. The chances are he wont win but because of the known conditions of the lottery someone will win. Because of the conditions (not yet known) a single universe or many universes - will come into existence - exactly as this one has.
So is this where the intelligent design God sits for the theist? Math doesn't know ( albeit the mathematical parameters are not known) so it proves God did it??
But because something is not known that does not establish something else IS known. My invisible friend says He did it. He says God is non existent and God wouldn't be clever enough anyway from what He has heard of him.
Although everything can be contemplated without the precondition for an intelligent interacting God as a necessity, stating the odds in math are against to the theist seems to mean 'God did it'. This is as useful as... the odds in math are against therefore 'my arse did it'.
================
One could have seen & walked on more real estate in NYC than everybody else combined;
however that one may still know NOTHING about ''title deeds'' because that one never has been to a closing attorney.
My dear Axeman -Watson;
elementary math if all the beasts of the field are elementary size on Capt Noah's property.
=================
Gordon G examples;
Solomons name includes ''peace''
Peace in Hebrew means, includes but not limited to the contexts;
Peace
inner peace in a fierce battle
safe
prosperity
reward
favor
well
salute
finish
give again
health, good health
great
Prince of Peace & Prince of peace is not related to false gods of Islam.
=======================================
''Now faith is the substance, the title deed...''
Sources;[Hebrews 11:1] Strongs Concordance, Gesenius & Scientific study of Semitics.
LMAOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
This is the most hypocritical post i've
seen in a long time
No no no... YOU don't ever show up for
these theistic debates.
No no no... there was NOTHING emotional
about your very first post which openly
attacks and dismisses all the atheists
by the wave of your magical wand.
LOL!
Alfonso, you just described yourself perfectly for all to see.. Good job!
Now I can ignore your drivel as nothing but
an emotional personal attack
peace
axeman
This is the most hypocritical post i've
seen in a long time
No no no... YOU don't ever show up for
these theistic debates.
No no no... there was NOTHING emotional
about your very first post which openly
attacks and dismisses all the atheists
by the wave of your magical wand.
LOL!
Alfonso, you just described yourself perfectly for all to see.. Good job!
Now I can ignore your drivel as nothing but
an emotional personal attack
peace
axeman