666...the Devils Moving Average

Quote from axeman:

TM's arguments are invalid because they are not even arguments.

" Why should your opinion that it arrived by chance mechanistic process be any more valid than his?""

1) First of all, you need to STOP quoting MY opinion when you in fact have NO IDEA what it is.


2) His opinion, is merely that.
It is NO BETTER than me pointing at a woman body and claiming that superior aliens created it.


How can I make this any clearer????

Can I point at dog shit and claim that it was engineered by little green men on mars?????????????

Can I????????

Using TM's logic I can.


I MUST PROVE THAT IT WAS ENGINEERED BY LITTLE GREEN MEN ON MARS.

The simple existence of dog shit does NOT QUALIFY AS PROOF of little green men on mars simply because I claim it does. Sheeeshhh....

This is sooooooo elementary. You guys would fail out of a college critical thinking course in about 10 minutes :)


What about your god?

Can you point at a womans body and claim YOUR god created it? Does this constitute evidence?

OF COURSE IT doesn't.

Why?

Because ANYONE believing in ANY god can make the very same claim.

No no no... MY GOD created the womans body. NO no no...MY god did... and so on and so on.


It provides us with ZERO information.,
It is a WORTHLESS statement by any measurable means.



peace

axeman
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first of all i can provide more proof of a god then you can of a big bang.....God has been seen and spoke directly to the prophets such as abraham and moses since the begining of time....whether you want to believe this or not is you choice....In addition, he sent his son Jesus as our savior to teach us how to live...Jesus was a living man who died teaching us how we should live....again, you can choose to believe this or not, but these men did exists and they did speak and walk with God.....now....Prove the Big bang theory???? ....but you have to at lest have one eyewitness, one video, one picture of the event happening and then eyewitness accounts and or videos of life forming after the big bang...otherwise it is just made up and lacking in serious merit..at least according to the standards you have set
 
Quote from TM_Direct:





first of all i can provide more proof of a god then you can of a big bang.....God has been seen and spoke directly to the prophets such as abraham and moses since the begining of time....whether you want to believe this or not is you choice....In addition, he sent his son Jesus as our savior to teach us how to live...Jesus was a living man who died teaching us how we should live....again, you can choose to believe this or not, but these men did exists and they did speak and walk with God.....now....Prove the Big bang theory???? ....but you have to at lest have one eyewitness, one video, one picture of the event happening and then eyewitness accounts and or videos of life forming after the big bang...otherwise it is just made up and lacking in serious merit..at least according to the standards you have set
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oh my "god" :p
 
Quote from axeman:

Your going in circles.

"Now we are getting somewhere. This imo shows your bias. You assume that your PC is made by humans because you look at your PC and it has certain characteristics that you would expect from a human manufacturer."

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.
Did you FAIL to read what I wrote???
I CAREFULLY explained why I thought it was created by a human AND NOWHERE DID I SAY BECAUSE IT HAS CERTAIN CHARACTERISTICS.

I believe it was created because I CAN PROVE IT WAS CREATED, by tracking it to its source. By watching one being built. By looking up the schematics. By finding the manufacturers label on it, etc, etc, etc
I can produce a HUGE pile of evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that humans built my pc.



"A Deist looks at the universe and says, "The universe looks designed. It is like a complex watch on the beach. It is obviously highly tuned for life. I think this has God's label all over it.""


You THINK it does, but your merely guessing. In fact, you cannot point me at ANY such label. You can only CLAIM there is a label. But there isnt. You may CLAIM that DNA is a label. but I might as well point at a mole on my ass and claim its a secret insignia of an alien race. There are better explainations for DNA than a creator god. :)


"Now I go back to my same question. Why is he any less valid than you? What hard scientific evidence are you talking about that you have that would lead one to believe that the miraculous Big Bang event was done by mechanistic, impersonal processes? "

I will refuse to reply if you make it obvious that your are not even reading my replies.

I already explained this. I wont type it again. Go back and read it.

peace

axeman
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Then your DELL computer example is not valid for the beginning of our universe, since neither one of us can go and "watch it being manufactured". So let's throw it out as non-pertinent.

So I ask my question again: why should I believe that a mechanistic, impersonal process is any more valid than a Deistic theory to the origin of our universe? Where is the science that you are talking about that would so overwhelmingly make one believe that the Deist is a silly myth-believer?
 
Quote from axeman:

No :)

I don't care to prove the big bang.
It's a theory. Im agnostic on it.

I can only claim it has evidence supporting it.

But if you insist for one bit, here ya go: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2271377.stm

peace

axeman
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BINGO AXEMAN........You are correct, i may fail the critical thinking course, but I passed all my Political science courses for a reason....Go back and read what i wrote....I was laughing at the 'certainty' with which they talk about the big bang...i criticized it a basically being no different then religious beliefs that are based more on faith then fact....you took exception to it, argues and levied quasi insults at me but after all that....you quote above proves what i originally posted about the big bang theory....:)
 
Quote from TM_Direct:




BINGO AXEMAN........You are correct, i may fail the critical thinking course, but I passed all my Political science courses for a reason....Go back and read what i wrote....I was laughing at the 'certainty' with which they talk about the big bang...i criticized it a basically being no different then religious beliefs that are based more on faith then fact....you took exception to it, argues and levied quasi insults at me but after all that....you quote above proves what i originally posted about the big bang theory....:)
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have you heard of weighing the evidence to arrive at a reasonable conclusion?

no, you aren't interested in such matters are you?


ps my sig is for you!:p
 
There is no point in arguing with someone who does not understand what constitutes proof or rejects reason.

Quoting the bible no more proves your god than quoting greek mythology proves zeus, or quoting egyptian theistic writings prove Rah.

I already explained why video evidence is not enough for supernatural claims.
I have video of magicians cutting people in half...so what.
The big bang theory is supported by all kinds of different evidence collected over decades of research and has stood the test of time.

There is tons of evidence for the big bang. But I still consider it a theory.
You can ignore the evidence all you want. But its real evidence, and isnt fabricated in a story written 2000 years ago. You can verify it, and test it yourself TODAY, unlike the bible fable.


There still is zero evidence for god.

The scale tilts in favor of the big bang over god any day of the week.


Now answer this question and be totally honest:

Do you believe IN EVERY GOD written about during mankinds history simply because it is written in a biblical book????

Of course you dont. This shows the big inconsistency in your belief system.

When you come up with EVERY REASON to reject all these other religions you will understand why I reject yours :)



peace

axeman



Quote from TM_Direct:



first of all i can provide more proof of a god then you can of a big bang.....God has been seen and spoke directly to the prophets such as abraham and moses since the begining of time....whether you want to believe this or not is you choice....In addition, he sent his son Jesus as our savior to teach us how to live...Jesus was a living man who died teaching us how we should live....again, you can choose to believe this or not, but these men did exists and they did speak and walk with God.....now....Prove the Big bang theory???? ....but you have to at lest have one eyewitness, one video, one picture of the event happening and then eyewitness accounts and or videos of life forming after the big bang...otherwise it is just made up and lacking in serious merit..at least according to the standards you have set
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Quote from LongShot:



have you heard of weighing the evidence to arrive at a reasonable conclusion?

no, you aren't interested in such matters are you? :p
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Excellent, so based on Jesus, you believe in God?? ..or are you saying that since you see some light or an asteroid, there must have been a big bang 7 billion years ago???

we don't want reasonable conclusion.....we want facts...this is science right? Again, my question: why Sagan and some of the others get a fee ride and just say " after the big bang life started and..." .......I need PROOF....provide me a picture, something??? another planet with human life??? anything....otherwise, its all just a leap of faith isn't;t it??
 
Quote from TM_Direct:





Excellent, so based on Jesus, you believe in God?? ..or are you saying that since you see some light or an asteroid, there must have been a big bang 7 billion years ago???

we don't want reasonable conclusion.....we want facts...this is science right? Again, my question: why Sagan and some of the others get a fee ride and just say " after the big bang life started and..." .......I need PROOF....provide me a picture, something??? another planet with human life??? anything....otherwise, its all just a leap of faith isn't;t it??
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no,

you dont need proof because you dont understand proof. i mean this seriously. you dont know what proof is and for this reason proof is of no use to you. seriously. :eek:
 
I don't see a problem here.

The big bang is a THEORY.
It is not an official FACT.

I leave it "as is". A theory is a hypothesis
with VERY STRONG supporting evidence.

I believe there is a good PROBABILITY that the big bang theory is true.

Belief is a grey scale, not black and white.

I disagree with anyone who says they are absolutely certain that the big bang is true.

This is NOT what a theory IS.

I don't even think science allows for ABSOLUTE CERTAINTIES.


But what I AM saying is that there is FAR FAR FAR more evidence for the big bang than your religion.

Given the two choices, a rational man must choose the big bang over god.

peace

axeman


Quote from TM_Direct:




BINGO AXEMAN........You are correct, i may fail the critical thinking course, but I passed all my Political science courses for a reason....Go back and read what i wrote....I was laughing at the 'certainty' with which they talk about the big bang...i criticized it a basically being no different then religious beliefs that are based more on faith then fact....you took exception to it, argues and levied quasi insults at me but after all that....you quote above proves what i originally posted about the big bang theory....:)
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