60 years of socialism has destroyed Europe

toc · Oct 17, 2011

Quote from panzerman:

Also, I think the argument that there is not enough gold to back all the demand for money is a a red herring.

Do not know of the feasibility of gold standard. It is actually true that there is not enough gold stashed in the Central banks around the world. Total amount is roughly $2T officially for the whole world. US economy alone is $11-12T. Gold standard is the thing of the 60s and 70s.

Fiscal discipline is the way to go.

Scataphagos · Oct 17, 2011

Quote from panzerman:

I'd like to see America move away from a fiat currency and go back to the gold standard, as well as do away with fractional reserve banking.

Yes it will dampen (but not eliminate) growth, inflation, wealth creation etc., but will make our financial system more sound and robust. Also, I think the argument that there is not enough gold to back all the demand for money is a a red herring.

The fiat currency was invented as a "perpetual stimulus"... perpetual inflation.... which can appear as "growth" if you don't examine the data with a critical eye.

As a fact... it's IMPOSSIBLE to grow, overall, greater than the increase in the population. Any such APPARENT growth which is greater than the growth in population, is either localized at the expense of some other place, subsidized by credit.. up to the credit capacity of borrowers.. or general inflation.

Sure, there can be "pockets of growth".. but which are offset by negatives in other areas.. and then there is "inflation-disguised-as-growth".. which is the primary objective of fiat money.

Every country wants "growth"... got news for you... "AIN'T POSSIBLE.. to the extent it could exceed the global demand of population increase". Real growth in one area is at the expense of growth in some other locale.

adadadog · Oct 17, 2011

Some people are scared:

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Scataphagos · Oct 17, 2011

Quote from adadadog:

Some people are scared:

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Unfortunately, lots more are just greedy little bastards...

piezoe · Oct 17, 2011

Quote from jueco2005:

This is a false assertion.

First there is no socialism in Europe. Only Corporatism like we do in America. Some countries have abused more than others.

Second, some European countries are in trouble but not for the reasons we are told.

It is vital for establishment here to hide the good things Europeans enjoy. What better way than to point at their financial problems as a result of having a few social programs.

The truth is that these countries are facing ruin not because they have good medical and education programs. They face collapse for the very same reason we face collapse here in America.

1- Huge UNPAYABLE debt.
2- Public pensions for political officials.
3- Partnership with few favored firms.

Greece is in trouble because people there can retire at age 50 from public work and entitled to 110% of their salary. Firefighters are paid around 100K. And the list is endless.

Americans must be denied proper health care and decent education. The philosophical story tale of Capitalism vs. Communism has been replaced with European Socialism. A new enemy must always be created to keep this little game going while the rich grows monstrously rich.

And if you dare to point out these mistakes they are not late to ask you to leave the country.

Maybe that will happen some day.

Well done, Jueco! There are some quite socialist countries in Scandinavia, of course. As a matter of fact, they are doing quite well financially. Financial problems do not relate to the economic system, capitalism versus socialism, so much as they do to poor fiscal management in some countries versus better management in others. There are defective implementations of either socialism or capitalism that one can easily point to.

eusdaiki · Oct 17, 2011

Quote from toc:

Do not know of the feasibility of gold standard. It is actually true that there is not enough gold stashed in the Central banks around the world. Total amount is roughly $2T officially for the whole world. US economy alone is $11-12T. Gold standard is the thing of the 60s and 70s.

Fiscal discipline is the way to go.

That is actually very easy to fix.
Simply set the price of gold at a price that satisfies the equation:

PriceofGold = TotalDollarFloat/TotalAmountofGold

if what you're saying about the $2t of gold is accurate, then the price of gold is going to need to be significantly higher than it is today in order to allow a transition to the gold standard... whether or not that is desirable is up for discussion... but it is not an impossible obstacle.

southbeach4me · Oct 17, 2011

Quote from toc:

Free medical for population is not socialism. It is a human right.

Welfare programs for stubborn runaway drug addicts, round after round of unemployment benefits, $20M payout for 6 months of work for CEOs, $300 staplers or water faucets for army inventory.................this all is socialism which eventually stagnates and they decays the whole economic machine.

Im an italian citizen but born and raised in the U.S. (Wash DC)
There is no free medical in europe...in countries like Italy, France, Sweden, etc, you pay for YOUR medical thru the huge taxes levied on gasoline( avg price of gas is there $4.50-$5.00/gal) and higher income tax. One of the problems is that americans are terrible at managing their money and prefer to splurge most of their income on that "gotta have that BMW", huge house, etc, then don't understand why they have lil money left over for the NECESSITIES.

And there is a HUGE medical, medicare fraud problem in the U.S. These ppl that commit medicare fraud and other scams are passing the cost to us normal people. These scammers should get life in prison WITH hard labor !!!

Scataphagos · Oct 17, 2011

Quote from southbeach4me:

Im an italian citizen but born and raised in the U.S. (Wash DC)
There is no free medical in europe...in countries like Italy, France, Sweden, etc, you pay for YOUR medical thru the huge taxes levied on gasoline( avg price of gas is there $4.50-$5.00/gal) and higher income tax. One of the problems is that americans are terrible at managing their money and prefer to splurge most of their income on that "gotta have that BMW", huge house, etc, then don't understand why they have lil money left over for the NECESSITIES.

And there is a HUGE medical, medicare fraud problem in the U.S. These ppl that commit medicare fraud and other scams are passing the cost to us normal people. These scammers should get life in prison WITH hard labor !!!

Medical care is NOT A RIGHT... IT'S A GOOD. "Freedom of Speech", "to bear arms", "to peacefully assemble".. THOSE ARE RIGHTS! Medical care is NOT a right! Neither is "free tuition", nor "a good middle-class wage where you basically loaf around and get paid big bucks thanks to the legalized extorion power of a union"...

Suggest Libtards and OWS-ers get their collective HEADS OUT OF THEIR ASSES AND LEARN THE DIFFERENCE!

Just because you WANT something... something which must be paid for by somebody else so that you can have it "for free"... doesn't make it a right.

You OWS whiners and Libtard suck-tits are a REVULSION to anyone who has strived for personal success and accepted the responsibility for his own financial life.

EAT SHIT AND DIE.. YOU GREEDY WASTE OF HUMAN SKIN, LIBTARD, "WANT SOMETHING FOR NOTHING" BASTARDS!!

Eight · Oct 17, 2011

Quote from jueco2005:

This is a false assertion.

First there is no socialism in Europe. Only Corporatism like we do in America. Some countries have abused more than others.

Second, some European countries are in trouble but not for the reasons we are told.

It is vital for establishment here to hide the good things Europeans enjoy. What better way than to point at their financial problems as a result of having a few social programs.

The truth is that these countries are facing ruin not because they have good medical and education programs. They face collapse for the very same reason we face collapse here in America.

1- Huge UNPAYABLE debt.
2- Public pensions for political officials.
3- Partnership with few favored firms.

Greece is in trouble because people there can retire at age 50 from public work and entitled to 110% of their salary. Firefighters are paid around 100K. And the list is endless.

Americans must be denied proper health care and decent education. The philosophical story tale of Capitalism vs. Communism has been replaced with European Socialism. A new enemy must always be created to keep this little game going while the rich grows monstrously rich.

And if you dare to point out these mistakes they are not late to ask you to leave the country.

Maybe that will happen some day.

soooo.... Socialism is not the problem it's the debt.. and they don't have military expenses that require borrowing... so they borrowed for social programs, no? Social programs are Socialism afaik, so their underlying, root problem is Socialism... or did we all miss something somewhere?

Eight · Oct 17, 2011

Here's how it plays out: The world is in world wide worldclass meltdown of Socialism:

The Federal Govt did not EVEN reduce spending after all the bullshit talk from the Republicans, spending went up 5% this year, that makes it very clear that they have to inflate their way out of the debt mess they are in if they want to become the lean and mean machine that is needed to continue to police the world.

The current stock rallies are selling opportunities in the context of the next bigger timeframe... in a few months, assuming the Euro folk can kick the can down the road again, the bear market will return and the bottom will be the lows of 2009 or even lower... gold rising is a symptom of the fear of inflation and inflation is with us already. Inflation will get much worse in next half year or year, the response will be rising interest rates, the rise in rates will put the last nail in the coffin for the Real Estate market...

The US needs a lot of inflation to cure it's headache. I believe it will play out like 20% for a couple of years followed by a year or two of 100%... You can flesh out that scenario for yourself...

The buying opportunities are going to be astounding in the next few years so trade well or die mofos!! WIN stands for Work is Nonprofit [in the context of socialism], work is a four letter word in the current context unless it is to build up trading capital...