$52k gone from my IB account. What next, sue IB?

Quote from polpolik:

My previous experience will attest to phantom orders being executed. I've had this happen multiple times. Orders I have clearly cancelled only to execute up to HOURS later. I've talked to them about it but nothing ever comes out of it. Fortunately for me, they're usually 1 lots and haven't been that huge of a hit on my account but I hear you and yeah, I'd sue the hell out of it. I won't let 52k go just like that.

edit (additional info)
and yeah, I clearly don't see any outstanding order but then out of nowhere, I'd hear the "ding" sound and then look to see an order filled, hours after I have cancelled it.
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Sounds to me like more than one person has experienced this - and that makes it a bug. A bug in the software can be proven, and if a lawyer is the only way to get your money back, I'd do it.
 
Quote from polpolik:

My previous experience will attest to phantom orders being executed. I've had this happen multiple times. Orders I have clearly cancelled only to execute up to HOURS later. I've talked to them about it but nothing ever comes out of it. Fortunately for me, they're usually 1 lots and haven't been that huge of a hit on my account but I hear you and yeah, I'd sue the hell out of it. I won't let 52k go just like that.

edit (additional info)
and yeah, I clearly don't see any outstanding order but then out of nowhere, I'd hear the "ding" sound and then look to see an order filled, hours after I have cancelled it.
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I think i had an order do this to me ONCE too... Over many years of trading... only once... but...

If ANYONE could Camtasia this (screen record it happening) i think you not only would win you court case but could get damages too... they would pay you to go away...

a thought...


<img src="http://www.enflow.com/p.gif">
 
It has been a while since I've used TWS, so the answer to this question may be obvious, but bear with me:

Can a user manually "re-submit" an inactive or canceled order under the same order number? I would have thought an order that had been canceled (or rejected) would have one order number, and a new attempt would have a new order number.
 
Is filing a lawsuit against IB an available option? Or did you, in fact, give up that right and are limited to binding arbitration, based on the account agreement you had to sign when you opened your direct access electronic account with IB?
 
IB obviously has a history of rejected futures orders...
Or orders that are ** not being displayed **...
Being filled at a later time.

As a futures trader doing 50-100 contracts...
You should be VERY conscious of this...
And come up with ways to deal with it.

The fact you just coincidently happened to be away at the time of the fill...
Does not help your case.

If you feel you have been screwed:

(1) Stop dealing with IB Customer Service.

(2) Hire an experienced lawyer immediately.
You will probably have to hire someone in new York or Chicago.
VERY experienced in securities arbitration is COMPULSORY.

(3) Deal ONLY with the Director of Compliance for IB...
It's easy to get his name and number.

(4) Find out who the direct NASD examiner for this is...
And send a copy of all correspondence to this NASD examiner and his boss.

There are various levels of NASD arbitration...
Before you have to resort to the US court system.

My guess is that there are serious problems with IB's software...
And if they were to lose this in arbitration...
The NASD would also fine then like $500,000 or more...

So if you handle this profesionally...
IB will settle to avoid an NASD investigation...
Which they probably do all the time.
 
I don’t think you are getting your money back. If you can sue them do it but no business will give 52k even if they are wrong without putting up a fight.
 
And as for the log file...
That should be VERY strong evidence in any dispute.

IB cannot reasonably claim their log file is incorrect...
Though they might claim it's been tampered with...
So you should make a copy...
And not disturb the original in any way...
Because it's time-stamped in various ways.

In fact...
You should have quarantined the hard drive the day it happened...
Because all you got is the log file.

There are many legal precedents of this kind.

For example...
A gas station cannot claim that the pump total you see is incorrect.
It's their absolute responsibility to make sure the pump numbers are correct...
And you NEVER have to pay more than the pump shows.

This is obviously not legal advice... I'm just speculating.
 
Quote from zzzap:

OldTrader,
the GBP order from earlier was part of the basket and it was rejected due to not enough margin. Anyway, the fact is it was rejected and I didn't have any working orders in my TWS.
I'm aware that my statement is just my statement. The fact from the log is that the execution occurred exactly after the TWS reconnected after lost connection even the order was marketable before (mentioning some "Performing intelligent order recovery.")
How do you explain that?
They don't seem to care because it took them 4 weeks to let me know what I could have told them the very first day. And they rather ignore my question when I asked why the execution occurred exactly after the TWS reconnected after lost connection even the order was marketable before.
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When the order was rejected for lack of margin, then you closed out other trades freeing up margin, could the order have been resubmitted since it was part of an orginal basket?

OldTrader
 
What is the value of all documents concerning the software you sign when you fund your account?

I don't remember when I created my IB account, but on TS they make sure every day by clicking an icon that you will not sue TS in case of automation problems...

This a different case since there is no automation involved and the problem is more serious. It's the first time I hear of order regeneration and I'm quite concerned as an IB customer.

I hope you will get your money back, but I think it's really difficult to win this case, even if this is a real TWS bug.
 
Thanks for bringing this up. I know it may not help you, but it does alert others to the problems electronic order entry can have.

I would be suprised if you could win law suit based upon IB's disclaimer, however, an arbtration panel might actually favor your circumstances as they usually side with the customer under reasonable circumstances.

Best to get a good securities attorney, remember, this could easily wind up costing you $10,000, unless a couple of letters gets IB to rollover.

The good news for you is that IB is now a publicly traded company and will need to be forthright in all of their dealings with your attorney, including the possibility that your attorney asks for so much information regarding the case that they decide it will be best to just admit no wrong doing and settle.
 
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