$52k gone from my IB account. What next, sue IB?

Z

zzzap

It's been 5 weeks since the incident and I don't have my money neither any clear answer. My last email to customer service is ignored for over a week.

I will describe what happened on 18th of September 2007. I will refer to my local time (GMT+01, EST+6). I attached the log file from that day as well.

Before I went outside the house around 16:45, I left my TWS running as usual since I have charting programs running during the day.
I made sure all my positions are closed and that I don't have any working orders and I went outside the house.
I came back home just before the US rate decision and found a opened position -66 GBP DEC07 contracts and few other Forex working orders.
I canceled the Forex orders and I flattened the -66 GBP DEC07 position for a huge loss (over $52000).
Looking at the audit trail, the order was filled 17:48.58 my local time.

After studying the detailed log file I found something interesting.
It seems my TWS was disconnected at 17:46:32 and then it reconnected at 17:48.52.
After it reconnected it loaded account details and it sent some orders. It send order id=1994424730 SELL 66 GBP DEC07 at 1.9889 stop 1.9889.
I'm not aware of placing such an order during the day but earlier that day at 10:30.01 I submitted a basket order and one of the orders in the basket was sell 66 GBP DEC07 at limit 1.9889.
I don't know what is the connection between these orders. So I really have no idea what went wrong and why was there after reconnecting submitted order id=1994424730 SELL 66 GBP DEC07 at 1.9889 stop 1.9889.

Examples from the log:

"RB 17:48:58:598 AWT-EventQueue-0: Performing intelligent order recovery."
..."RB 17:48:58:671 AWT-EventQueue-0: Intelligent order recovery order: id=1994424730 mod=0 liq=false sym=GBP state=jfix.FixOrderState$Inactive acct=null cum=0 conid=39656827 exch=GLOBEX compExch=null best=null time=null secType=FUT basket=Basket Window 2 ddeId=12966 avpx=1.7976931348623157E308 SELL 66 at 1.9889 stop 1.9889 jfix.FixOrderState$Inactive"...


Then it says:

"RB 17:48:58:668 AWT-EventQueue-0: Saved Order: id=1994424730 mod=0 liq=false sym=GBP state=jfix.FixOrderState$Submitted acct=null cum=0 conid=39656827 exch=GLOBEX compExch=null best=null time=null secType=FUT basket=Basket Window 2 ddeId=12966 avpx=1.7976931348623157E308 SELL 66 at 1.9889 stop 1.9889 jfix.FixOrderState$Submitted BasisPoints=1.7976931348623157E308 FacilitationPct=2147483647 StockRangeUpper=1.7976931348623157E308 TriggerMethod=Last CrossOrderId=null BasisPointsComputationType=2147483647 TriggerOutsideRth=true CrossQuantity=2147483647 StockRangeLower=1.7976931348623157E308 ReferencePriceType=None AllowedOrderQuantity=2147483647 null
RB 17:48:58:668 AWT-EventQueue-0: Corresponding CCP known order: NONE"



I was dealing with a customer support regarding this and was getting answers like "... still looking into this issue, I will keep you updated. " "I am working with out top programmers on this issue, I hope to have more information for you tomorrow. "

After almost 4 weeks I finally got some answer :
"After analysis of the TWS log files and FIX messages for the orders sent it appears that an inactive order was retransmitted, possibly when you executed a basket. The executed order clearly has your username ..."
Basically saying it's my fault and not theirs.

Wow, so they needed almost 4 weeks "working with their top programmers" to tell me what I read on day 1 from my log file. That the executed order has my username and that the order was sent from my PC.

They completely ignored that:
-the order from earlier that day to sell 66 contracts was rejected (a fact from the log)
-I didn't have any working orders and I wasn't even at home during the execution
-and most importantly that execution occurred exactly after the TWS reconnected after lost connection even the order was marketable before (mentioning some "Performing intelligent order recovery." in the log)

So I sent following email which is unanswered and ignored for over week:

"CS name,
the GBP order was rejected, it clearly shows in the audit trial. There isn't any other entry in the log showing I resubmitted the order. Please point me to it if you think otherwise.
However what is most important here is the fact that the execution occured exactly after the TWS reconnected after lost connection.
If I submited the order as you said I did, why wasn't it executed earlier? The order was marketable so it doesn't make any sence.
So I think there is some software glitch in "Intelligent order recovery" or something to do with handling orders after TWS reestablishes its connection."


So after a long story, here is my question: What to do next since IB arrogantly said after 4 weeks what was clear the very first day and they don't seem to care to figure this out, basically ignoring me?
I have been quite patient considering the $amount involved.
So what next, should I contact authorities and sue them?
Any ideas with this would be appreciated.
 
Quote from john12:

you must not be using the security device as nobody could relog in your account
More...

I'm using the device.
This is not a security issue, rather a software glitch - I believe.
 
Quote from zzzap:

So what next, should I contact authorities and sue them?
Any ideas with this would be appreciated.
More...

Yes. It is the only way to get their attention.
 
Quote from zzzap:


So after a long story, here is my question: What to do next since IB arrogantly said after 4 weeks what was clear the very first day and they don't seem to care to figure this out, basically ignoring me?
I have been quite patient considering the $amount involved.
So what next, should I contact authorities and sue them?
Any ideas with this would be appreciated.
More...

Why was the GBP order "rejected" earlier in the day?

You know, I find myself wondering why you think your next step is to sue. Do you have some type of evidence that this was in fact IB's error?

Frankly, what we know right now is that an order was submitted from your computer. IB has no way to know that you did not in fact submit it, do they? Other than your statements that you did not submit?

You say "they don't seem to care to figure this out". Yet, maybe they think they did figure it out. Maybe after checking it out they believe that the order was submitted from your computer, and therefore is your responsibility, despite your claims now that there was some type of "computer gremlin" that caused all of this.

OldTrader
 
zzzap,

Sorry to hear about your nightmare!

Just one question: When your GBP order was "rejected", was there still an order line showing on your screen? If so, was it red or magenta?

It seems that cancelled (or rejected?) orders are not completely dead until they show a red status.

saxon
 
Quote from OldTrader:

Why was the GBP order "rejected" earlier in the day?

You know, I find myself wondering why you think your next step is to sue. Do you have some type of evidence that this was in fact IB's error?

Frankly, what we know right now is that an order was submitted from your computer. IB has no way to know that you did not in fact submit it, do they? Other than your statements that you did not submit?

You say "they don't seem to care to figure this out". Yet, maybe they think they did figure it out. Maybe after checking it out they believe that the order was submitted from your computer, and therefore is your responsibility, despite your claims now that there was some type of "computer gremlin" that caused all of this.

OldTrader
More...


OldTrader,
the GBP order from earlier was part of the basket and it was rejected due to not enough margin. Anyway, the fact is it was rejected and I didn't have any working orders in my TWS.
I'm aware that my statement is just my statement. The fact from the log is that the execution occurred exactly after the TWS reconnected after lost connection even the order was marketable before (mentioning some "Performing intelligent order recovery.")
How do you explain that?
They don't seem to care because it took them 4 weeks to let me know what I could have told them the very first day. And they rather ignore my question when I asked why the execution occurred exactly after the TWS reconnected after lost connection even the order was marketable before.
 
My previous experience will attest to phantom orders being executed. I've had this happen multiple times. Orders I have clearly cancelled only to execute up to HOURS later. I've talked to them about it but nothing ever comes out of it. Fortunately for me, they're usually 1 lots and haven't been that huge of a hit on my account but I hear you and yeah, I'd sue the hell out of it. I won't let 52k go just like that.

edit (additional info)
and yeah, I clearly don't see any outstanding order but then out of nowhere, I'd hear the "ding" sound and then look to see an order filled, hours after I have cancelled it.
 
Quote from OldTrader:

Why was the GBP order "rejected" earlier in the day?

You know, I find myself wondering why you think your next step is to sue. Do you have some type of evidence that this was in fact IB's error?

Frankly, what we know right now is that an order was submitted from your computer. IB has no way to know that you did not in fact submit it, do they? Other than your statements that you did not submit?

You say "they don't seem to care to figure this out". Yet, maybe they think they did figure it out. Maybe after checking it out they believe that the order was submitted from your computer, and therefore is your responsibility, despite your claims now that there was some type of "computer gremlin" that caused all of this.

OldTrader
More...

Wow,

As most criticizem of IB is unwarranted; and you seem to have the need to immediately defend.

I decided to check this out, and read the LOG; which you obviously didn't. In my humble opinion: It is clearly apparent the situation as presented here is highly likely. The only way he is at fault is if HE had his orders set to be continually resubmitted (obviously not since the orders are so far apart). The order was clearly rejected and then when the software shut down and reloaded itself (many hours later) that order was somehow magically submitted and filled; ALL within a couple of seconds. His fingers can't be that good.

Thank you for stepping forward and bringing this to our attention. Please keep us updated as to the outcome. As I am a very Long term customer and supporter of IB; Things like this concern me GREATLY.

disclaimer: I use IB; I like IB, and I am not a software expert. So maybe I am missing something, and open to correction from the IB tech department.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top