Ad hominem, straw man and little bit of non sequitur all thrown in for good measure. Once again, you come up heavy on rhetoric and light on substance. The middle class, that you seem to regard so highly, doesn't have any choice in this matter. I already explained to you, you and your ilk are no longer going to make 70k a year for working on an assembly line while the rest of the world is forced to buy our crap products and live in object poverty. Wake up man, this is the 21st century. Time to get reacquainted with the rest of the world.
5 days before the election- Jobs report
- Thread starter myminitrading
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Ad hominem, straw man and little bit of non sequitur all thrown in for good measure. Once again, you come up heavy on rhetoric and light on substance. The middle class, that you seem to regard so highly, doesn't have any choice in this matter. I already explained to you, you and your ilk are no longer going to make 70k a year for working on an assembly line while the rest of the world is forced to buy our crap products and live in object poverty. Wake up man, this is the 21st century. Time to get reacquainted with the rest of the world.
Has nothing to do with capitalism. Is China the bastion of capitalism? LOL. Dude, go heckle Don Bright some more, this is a little over your head.
Our economy doesn't exist in a vacuum and that is the cloud that hangs over us. We are dependent on foreigners to support our lavish lifestyle. We have gotten away with this for a long time but if you think this gravy train is going to continue forever I've got some great sub-prime lending plays you can invest in.
I'm not saying this economy sucks right now, you're right everyone is spending like it is the roaring 20's, how can that be bad? But it looks to me like there are some serious underpinnings that could bring everything down. Our economy has been built on the huge expansion of money and the resulting wealth effect. Well the wealth effect is running out of gas; the housing boom is looking bust, profits are turning down, inflation is up, and we have a negative savings rate. Look what is happening to the dollar. I see stagflation and an outside chance of a severe recession, maybe even a depression. I'm no economist so I am talking out of my arse, but some who are have made me see the straits we are in. Doom and gloom, maybe but I think the downside to our economy through 2010 is down. Nothing to trade on but there is no way these chickens won't come home to roost someday.
And as far as throwing foreign nations a bone or two to lift up their standard of living; you have to be kidding. There is nothing free about this trade. First it was jobs to Mexico but then we found cheaper sources, then it was China, then Vietnam, next it will be Africa. It is a race to the bottom to see where we can exploit the people the most while Fing up their environment along with everything else. It is real magnanimous of you Mav to allow them to work for slave wages while these jobs leave the Ole USA by the cargo load. This isn't a good thing, it's a great thing. If we keep going maybe someday they will pay us to ship our jobs overseas.
I'm not saying this economy sucks right now, you're right everyone is spending like it is the roaring 20's, how can that be bad? But it looks to me like there are some serious underpinnings that could bring everything down. Our economy has been built on the huge expansion of money and the resulting wealth effect. Well the wealth effect is running out of gas; the housing boom is looking bust, profits are turning down, inflation is up, and we have a negative savings rate. Look what is happening to the dollar. I see stagflation and an outside chance of a severe recession, maybe even a depression. I'm no economist so I am talking out of my arse, but some who are have made me see the straits we are in. Doom and gloom, maybe but I think the downside to our economy through 2010 is down. Nothing to trade on but there is no way these chickens won't come home to roost someday.
And as far as throwing foreign nations a bone or two to lift up their standard of living; you have to be kidding. There is nothing free about this trade. First it was jobs to Mexico but then we found cheaper sources, then it was China, then Vietnam, next it will be Africa. It is a race to the bottom to see where we can exploit the people the most while Fing up their environment along with everything else. It is real magnanimous of you Mav to allow them to work for slave wages while these jobs leave the Ole USA by the cargo load. This isn't a good thing, it's a great thing. If we keep going maybe someday they will pay us to ship our jobs overseas.
I'm surprised that most of the blue collar jobs in this country haven't been eliminated and outsourced, like manufacturing. Most white collar jobs can be outsourced as well, like accounting, finance, customer service, engineering, and IT. All the manufacturing jobs can go to Africa, paying $1 an hour with no benefits and pension. The white collar jobs can go to India and China. I see a bleak future for this country, with 80% unemployment rates. Any one else agree?
The middle class, that you seem to regard so highly, doesn't have any choice in this matter.
The middle class that you seem to despise so deeply actually does have a choice and hopefully it's going to make it clear on Tuesday.
I already explained to you, you and your ilk are no longer going to make 70k a year for working on an assembly
Why not, what's wrong with that? When that was the case (during the 20th century) the entire country prospered, now it's no longer the case, you're basicially agreeing that the country is going down the drain and yet, being a patriotic american that you are you're celebrating the fact. Globalization wins, the US loses, Mav is happy. You're basically saying that what's going on is bad for america, so let's stay the course. I don't get it, really, why do you hate this country?
At any case it's not as simple as that, it's not just working on an assembly. Computers, electronics, software, medical equipment, scientific research - it can all be done overseas in India, China, Russia, no american can possibly compete with their rates. When this country starts resembling China or Paraguay - I guess then you'll be able to declare "Mission Accomplished".
Maverick, you're a smart guy, but if you think the entire world is going to break out in a combined chorus of, "We are the world", you're mistaken. Further, your opinion of the average worker, of which I am one, shows a eliteist attitude that I find troubling. If you think that me and my kind are going to sweep floors for peanuts, while a select few grow wealthly beyond their wildest dreams, you may be in for a unpleasant surprise in the not too distant future. I don't deny you, or anyone else, their success, but you won't do it at my expense. Think long and hard before you attempt to put a boot on my throat.
Excellent Commentary All
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Thus what one must do is to locate the so called gains that globalization produces...
That is ...where are they...who receives them..
Or is it the case whereby there are no gains..and that wealth is simply transferred somewhere else...
...............................................................................
Lets say an American in 2006 normally buys $100 in gasoline per month....and an Indian in 2006 normally buys $20 per month...
IBM consults the American Firm to transfer to India...the displaced American now buys $50 in gasoline per month ...and the Indian buys $50 in gasoline per month...One loses one wins..
Thus what has globalization offered the American ?
How does this American benefit from globalization ?
Is this a case whereby government has adopted unrealistic textbook theory that is not applicable or sensible in the real world ?
Then is globalization a good thing or a bad thing ?
...................................................................................
Now if the American owned the stock of his company...and the stock doubled...ok he would gain on the stock...but it is unlikely that he could cover income lost......
......................................................................................
Thus my argument for capitalism is that a company is worth far more when it is publicly traded than it is when it is private...and can help to cover previous workers losses because he has a vested interest in the company that is commensurate with his participation...encouraging good work etc...
Thus I believe that the consolidation of the exchanges...and having all worthwhile sizable companies go public....will be the single most important key which will validate the concept of globalization being a positive event...
...............................................................................................
This is basically what Goldman Sachs does anyway...it locates business prospects and nurtures the relationships such that capitalization can take place...
Globalization is a formal acceptance of the approach by other governments which can smooth out the legal obstacles....
And the chance for financial benefits arise out stock participation commensurate with ones compensation...
....................................................................................
Thus what one must do is to locate the so called gains that globalization produces...
That is ...where are they...who receives them..
Or is it the case whereby there are no gains..and that wealth is simply transferred somewhere else...
...............................................................................
Lets say an American in 2006 normally buys $100 in gasoline per month....and an Indian in 2006 normally buys $20 per month...
IBM consults the American Firm to transfer to India...the displaced American now buys $50 in gasoline per month ...and the Indian buys $50 in gasoline per month...One loses one wins..
Thus what has globalization offered the American ?
How does this American benefit from globalization ?
Is this a case whereby government has adopted unrealistic textbook theory that is not applicable or sensible in the real world ?
Then is globalization a good thing or a bad thing ?
...................................................................................
Now if the American owned the stock of his company...and the stock doubled...ok he would gain on the stock...but it is unlikely that he could cover income lost......
......................................................................................
Thus my argument for capitalism is that a company is worth far more when it is publicly traded than it is when it is private...and can help to cover previous workers losses because he has a vested interest in the company that is commensurate with his participation...encouraging good work etc...
Thus I believe that the consolidation of the exchanges...and having all worthwhile sizable companies go public....will be the single most important key which will validate the concept of globalization being a positive event...
...............................................................................................
This is basically what Goldman Sachs does anyway...it locates business prospects and nurtures the relationships such that capitalization can take place...
Globalization is a formal acceptance of the approach by other governments which can smooth out the legal obstacles....
And the chance for financial benefits arise out stock participation commensurate with ones compensation...
Fantastic post Mav. You're completely correct.....