36 years relative performance of Icahn Enterprises L.P. (IEP) versus S&P 500

[Maverick2608]

07/23/1987 - 04/06/2023

Total annualised return including dividends according to Bloomberg.

Icahn Enterprises L.P. (IEP): 9.98%
S&P 500 index: 9.87%

However, I assume also in this publicly traded vehicle, Icahn charges management fees, so Icahn I assume has made a fortune managing money in this vehicle besides his hedge fund, which by the way is primarily invested in IEP.

(The 07/23/1987 starting point is the starting point on Bloomberg.)

 

[SteveM]

If I were a salesperson for the Icahn fund, I would tell you this was a very bullish 35-year period for US stocks, generally speaking. Investing in Icahn fund would have paid off better in a more bearish environment, where Icahn management would have opportunistically deployed capital in distressed opportunities, that would have boosted returns against the S&P 500 index.

Whether this is true or not, I am not sure....but that would be my justification/sales pitch.

 

[Maverick2608]

If I were a salesperson for the Icahn fund, I would tell you this was a very bullish 35-year period for US stocks, generally speaking. Investing in Icahn fund would have paid off better in a more bearish environment, where Icahn management would have opportunistically deployed capital in distressed opportunities, that would have boosted returns against the S&P 500 index.

Whether this is true or not, I am not sure....but that would be my justification/sales pitch.

I give you point for trying ;-) However, the 10% is pretty much in line with the long term average performance of the S&P 500.

 

[Pekelo]

Because I am dense, what is the point of this thread?

If pointing out that an investor could have just bought SPX and got the same or better profits, let's point out that 99.9% of HFs has a WORSE record than Icahn's....

And most investors didn't start in 1987 but sometimes later, thus the comparison can vary a lot based on the starting date.

 

[Maverick2608]

Icahn is one of the most succesful investors in history with a net worth of USD 18 billion.

Based on the publicly available information over the 36 years available returns of his publicly available vehicle, you as an investor would not have fared better than the market even with this extremely succesful investor.

I think that will come as a surprise to many investors.

The point is that buying the S&P 500 is the best long term investment strategy.

Short term trading is a completely different game.

If you think the average thread in here contains much more valuable information, I encourage you to engage in those threads instead.

 

[murray t turtle]

Icahn is one of the most succesful investors in history with a net worth of USD 18 billion.

Based on the publicly available information over the 36 years available returns of his publicly available vehicle, you as an investor would not have fared better than the market even with this extremely succesful investor.

I think that will come as a surprise to many investors.

The point is that buying the S&P 500 is the best long term investment strategy.

Short term trading is a completely different game.

If you think the average thread in here contains much more valuable information, I encourage you to engage in those threads instead.

%%
Mr Ichan+ his investors has done much better than benchmark SPY; but really depends on start date + time they put money in.
I like the way he moved south;
+ much of his company south to lower tax jurisdictions.
QQQ has done much better than SPY, benchmark/ but really depends on start date+ when money is put in

 

[tooriginal]

Yes but what matters is risk adjusted returns. What is the sharpe? If the sharpe is is better than the index, you can leverage the better sharpe and get better returns for the same risk.

 

[nitrene]

07/23/1987 - 04/06/2023

Total annualised return including dividends according to Bloomberg.

Icahn Enterprises L.P. (IEP): 9.98%
S&P 500 index: 9.87%

However, I assume also in this publicly traded vehicle, Icahn charges management fees, so Icahn I assume has made a fortune managing money in this vehicle besides his hedge fund, which by the way is primarily invested in IEP.

(The 07/23/1987 starting point is the starting point on Bloomberg.)

The problem with this is he made his massive gains before 1987. He made his big hits from a percentage basis in the 1970s when he utilized his famous Greenmail techniques aka his shakedown of WASP managements that didn't want a Jew as a 10%+ holder.

 

[ElCubano]

Icahn is one of the most succesful investors in history with a net worth of USD 18 billion.

Based on the publicly available information over the 36 years available returns of his publicly available vehicle, you as an investor would not have fared better than the market even with this extremely succesful investor.

I think that will come as a surprise to many investors.

The point is that buying the S&P 500 is the best long term investment strategy.

Short term trading is a completely different game.

If you think the average thread in here contains much more valuable information, I encourage you to engage in those threads instead.

@SimpleMeLike strategy

 

[Maverick2608]

The problem with this is he made his massive gains before 1987. He made his big hits from a percentage basis in the 1970s when he utilized his famous Greenmail techniques aka his shakedown of WASP managements that didn't want a Jew as a 10%+ holder.

That is exactly my point. If we look at big succesful investors after they have become big and renowned, the extraordinary returns turn into ordinary returns.