354 to 60 vote against, Trump has meltdown unable to deal with the reality of it.

Bugenhagen said:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pelosi-dems-trump-syria-white-house-meeting-storm-out

Oh sweet Jesus.

"According to the source, Trump cut Schumer off and responded that Mattis was "the world’s most overrated general. You know why? He wasn’t tough enough. I captured ISIS. Mattis said it would take two years. I captured them in one month."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/susan-rice-trump-dishonest-craven

"Susan Rice says Trump's comments about Kurdish forces are among his 'most dishonest, craven' ever

Former U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Susan Rice sharply criticized President Trump after he compared Kurdish forces and the terroristic Islamic State.

"This is among the most dishonest, craven statements ever from Trump — to justify his total sell-out to ISIS, Putin, Assad and Erdogan," Rice tweeted. "We need to find out WHY? What did Trump get in exchange for sacrificing our national security???" she asked on Wednesday.

Trump, during a Wednesday press conference, had said that Kurdish allies who'd aided the U.S. in battling ISIS weren't "angels."

“The PKK, which is a part of the Kurds, as you know, is probably worse at terror and more of a terrorist threat in many ways than ISIS," he said, referring to the Kurdistan Workers' Party.

Trump has received bipartisan criticism for his decision to pull U.S. troops out of northeastern Syria, with critics alleging he abandoned the Kurds to "slaughter" by Turkey, which has used the withdrawal as an opportunity to push into the region.

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Trump is right. The Kurdish PKK group has been labeled a terrorist organization by the U.S. for over two decades. The Kurdish YPG group that helped us fight ISIS is actually an offshoot of the PKK. The U.S. initially didn't arm the YPG because of their ties to the PKK, but Trump reversed that decision in 2017. I assume he felt like arming them was the lesser of the two evils.

The Turkish/Kurdish conflict has been ongoing for the better part of the past 40 years. It isn't our responsibility to stay in Syria to protect the Kurds perpetually moving forward just because they helped us fight ISIS. We would probably never leave if we tried to shoulder that burden.
 
LS1Z28 said:
Trump is right. The Kurdish PKK group has been labeled a terrorist organization by the U.S. for over two decades. The Kurdish YPG group that helped us fight ISIS is actually an offshoot of the PKK. The U.S. initially didn't arm the YPG because of their ties to the PKK, but Trump reversed that decision in 2017. I assume he felt like arming them was the lesser of the two evils.

The Turkish/Kurdish conflict has been ongoing for the better part of the past 40 years. It isn't our responsibility to stay in Syria to protect the Kurds perpetually moving forward just because they helped us fight ISIS. We would probably never leave if we tried to shoulder that burden.
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But is the PKK even a terrorist group, or did we follow Turkey's lead so we can use their landing strips? By the PKK's actions, Russian separatists in Ukraine should be labeled terrorists. Hell, at least the Russians downed a commercial flight. Let's face it, every dictator is following Bush's lead, and slapping that label on any civil war faction out there, much like they label critical media "fake news" following Trump's lead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers'_Party#Designation_as_a_terrorist_group

had a hard time finding terrorist acts by the group. Looks like they did some in '96 and we tagged them as FTO in '97
https://ideas.repec.org/p/sek/iacpro/0701696.html
https://tr.usembassy.gov/state-depa...signation-of-the-kurdistan-workers-party-pkk/
 
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Here4money said:
But is the PKK even a terrorist group, or did we follow Turkey's lead so we can use their landing strips? By the PKK's actions, Russian separatists in Ukraine should be labeled terrorists. Hell, at least the Russians downed a commercial flight. Let's face it, every dictator is following Bush's lead, and slapping that label on any civil war faction out there, much like they label critical media "fake news" following Trump's lead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers'_Party#Designation_as_a_terrorist_group

had a hard time finding terrorist acts by the group. Looks like they did some in '96 and we tagged them as FTO in '97
https://ideas.repec.org/p/sek/iacpro/0701696.html
https://tr.usembassy.gov/state-depa...signation-of-the-kurdistan-workers-party-pkk/
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https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/ypg-pkk-terror-group-supporters-attack-turks-in-germany/1616442
At least 15 people were injured in 17 attacks in Germany since Operation Peace Spring in northern Syria began.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/16/us/politics/factcheck-trump-syria-kurds.html
The consortium’s database catalogs 2,455 attacks by the P.K.K. since its formation in 1978.

The U.S. has designated them a terrorist organization since 1987, and Obama made the decision not to arm the YPG because of their ties to the PKK. Trump reversed this decision in 2017 after he took office. I'm not very familiar with their history, but I assume there's a reason why both sides of the aisle have considered them a terrorist organization for decades.
 
I recall reading about discussions to arm the YPG from before Trump so it was always an option but I'd expect Mattis was constrained by policy and of course the consequences down the road of that path.

I'll dig that out tomorrow however as far as Trump being "right" on this statement "the world’s most overrated general. You know why? He wasn’t tough enough. I captured ISIS. Mattis said it would take two years. I captured them in one month." it is one of his OTT narcissist boasts quite disconnected from reality.
 
EHCI8Z5X4AEe67P.jpg:large
 
LS1Z28 said:
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/ypg-pkk-terror-group-supporters-attack-turks-in-germany/1616442
At least 15 people were injured in 17 attacks in Germany since Operation Peace Spring in northern Syria began.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/16/us/politics/factcheck-trump-syria-kurds.html
The consortium’s database catalogs 2,455 attacks by the P.K.K. since its formation in 1978.

The U.S. has designated them a terrorist organization since 1987, and Obama made the decision not to arm the YPG because of their ties to the PKK. Trump reversed this decision in 2017 after he took office. I'm not very familiar with their history, but I assume there's a reason why both sides of the aisle have considered them a terrorist organization for decades.
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eh....those attacks in Germany aren't very well detailed, sounds like harassment/assaults in retaliation of Turkey's incursion. I'm saying an attack by separatists doesn't necessarily constitute terrorism. My understanding of the situation is they committed terrorism in the 90's, then at some point steered into a 'we want a plot of land' group, but the terrorist designation stuck. The YPG/SG are essentially aligned with that sentiment but I haven't seen any reporting of them committing terrorism themselves.

This call by Trump to lump them w/terrorists was him trying to save face and deflect his fuck up by smearing the Kurds, and it appears to be working (at least you're saying he's right).

Obama did not arm them due to political backlash, and yes, because these groups do sometimes devolve into something ugly. The kurds for instance are now not our friends after we abandoned them, and they now have weapons issued by uncle sam.

I wonder if the 1987 date is a mistake by the NYT; The link I posted says 1997. Tthough maybe the FTO designation is different.

Bugenhagen said:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...trump-s-extraordinary-letter-erdogan-n1067746

"This letter Trump sent to Erdogan is so weird we had to check with the White House to make sure its real."

Date on the letter was October 9th, just before Turkey was about to start fighting and after the phone call where Trump OK'd their plan.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1184559361638748161
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we now have a leader that's respected around the world they said...
we now have a leader that's respected around the world they said...
Turkey's Erdogan 'threw Trump's Syria letter in bin'
In response, Turkish presidential sources told BBC Turkish: "President Erdogan received the letter, thoroughly rejected it and put it in the bin."


Tony Stark said:
EHCI8Z5X4AEe67P.jpg:large
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