30 Bonds 1/2Tick

[Pa(b)st Prime]

I hate the reduced tick size BUT in defense of the CME the banks made them do it. Cantor etal have traded Bonds in 64ths for years and the basis guys were sick of being jammed in back of the full tick queue.

Keep in mind the looming "Four Seasons Exchange" which undoubtedly will trade in reduced ticks. Hell there's many clowns who'd like to see Bonds trade in decimals. I bet one day it happens.

 

[robustdeus]

""Hell there's many clowns who'd like to see Bonds trade in decimals. I bet one day it happens."" [/B][/QUOTE]

please dont say that. dont ever say that



seat prices still dropping as book size is thining out. It feels like big players are giving up the interest rate trade.

 

[LaszloChi]

Quote from robustdeus:

""Hell there's many clowns who'd like to see Bonds trade in decimals. I bet one day it happens.""

please dont say that. dont ever say that



seat prices still dropping as book size is thining out. It feels like big players are giving up the interest rate trade. [/B][/QUOTE]

Look at the bund/bobl/schatz.

-lc

 

[forestfire]

"seat prices still dropping as book size is thining out"

Seat prices have certainly declined from last summer's highs, but it's not entirely accurate to say they are dropping.
Was the book ever that thick?

AMs have taken a hit but there has been no rush to sell them, no panic sellers to speak of.
As for the full memberships:
B-1(Full with ERP) last traded at $775k
B-1(Full without ERP) traded yesterday at $575 -the low was $400k
I wouldn't be surprised if prices go lower, but in my opinion they have found, or are near a bottom for the time being.

 

[$preader]

Quote from LaszloChi:

It feels like big players are giving up the interest rate trade.

Look at the bund/bobl/schatz.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Bobl used to be pretty good,went a bit too automated,then half-tick ruined it.

Schatz used to be awesome(many,many years ago),half-tick changed the game,now it is a bunch of bullshit.

Bund is just bullshit,will probably go half-tick then it is adios bunds for good,I mean it only did 660K yesterday - shameful.

But don't say any of this on the Eurex forum,the handful of posters there are really defensive.

 

[Bernard111]

Quote from robustdeus:


seat prices still dropping as book size is thining out. It feels like big players are giving up the interest rate trade.

CBOT simply lost the control of its cash cow, after the CME Group merger: the interest rate complex -- and the half tick added more pain.

 

[bottompicker]

Quote from Cesko:

You guys are talking about difficulty of trading bonds after cutting ticks in half. My question is in what way it used to be easier? Are bonds more difficult than 10 year notes?

When markets get the tick halved they just become thinner and swing further,this happened recently and quite drastically in Short Sterling futures,also in BOBL,now in 30yrs.

It wasn't necessarily easier but you get used to the movement and momentum almost by second nature and then the dynamics of the whole market change.

 

[Ticktaker]

Quote from FarmerTed:

Just curious how many bond traders out there have pretty much given up trading the after the move to 1/2 tics. Are you still successfully scalping them?

As for me, since the move to 1/2 tics, I have tried trading the S&P (for about 2 months) and also the Bund (for 1 month). I was not successful at trading the S&P and the Bund I just about broke even. Now I am back to the 30 year only because I have the best rates here.

For those who have moved on since the move to 1/2 tics, have you tried trading any other markets? Have you had success?

I am just looking for a market that has similar price action as the bonds did when they were full ticks.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks

Forget about the Bund altogether. That market is completely owned by ATS (Automated Trading Systems). If your game is there, and you keep your rules and discipline in check you can trade any market. I would take a look at Energy (Crude Oil) or Metals (Gold). They are extremely volatile and still hold 'point and click' opportunities.

 

[Ticktaker]

Quote from FarmerTed:

It is not that the 30 year use to be an easier trade, it was just different. The swings were not as drastic, it was a more controlled trade. Although I guess that statement could be applied to any market these days.

Some traders I know like the 30 year trade now. It sometimes plays levels very nice. I think now it is more of a position trade market rather than a scalpers market.

Completely agreed. There is no more banging the 30yr for a tick off the 10yr correlation. Way too much 'whip' action. As an example, if you've watched it long enough you'll know what I'm talking about: the 30yr will move 10 ticks either way, and before you know it, you're sitting there thinking "How did they just get there?" There were no opportunities to get in as a point and click scalper. Right there is your proof that it has become more of a position trade, yet there are still tough shake outs to deal with. That is why I suggest a new product for the time being.

 

[BondTrader50]

Quote from Ticktaker:

Completely agreed. There is no more banging the 30yr for a tick off the 10yr correlation. Way too much 'whip' action. As an example, if you've watched it long enough you'll know what I'm talking about: the 30yr will move 10 ticks either way, and before you know it, you're sitting there thinking "How did they just get there?" There were no opportunities to get in as a point and click scalper. Right there is your proof that it has become more of a position trade, yet there are still tough shake outs to deal with. That is why I suggest a new product for the time being.

The slippage in the new 30 yr is a big downer for the position trade, for those that use stops.