What about all the people who paid money to you for coaching on how to be a better trader? Are they suckers? What about all the people that bought your implementation of the PGO trading system? Are they suckers? What about your website coach4traders dot com? Is it for suckers?
2nd try: what is easier, poker or trading?
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I'm a poker player who's interested in trading. I've worked my way up from .25/.50 limit hold 'em to be a decent winner up through 30/60 limit hold 'em. I've played somewhere between 400,000 and 450,000 hands of limit hold 'em alone, with another ~15-20,000 of various other games, namely pot limit omaha and no limit hold 'em.
Fundamentally, I think trading and poker are very similar: they're both rather singular endeavors (while a lot of people learn/discuss with others, it still comes down to you as an individual) that require a very strong sense of discipline and confidence. But, that sense of confidence has to be tempered, as ego has crushed many a dream. Above all else, they place a very high premium on mental fortitude.
In practice, I think poker is a lot easier to get a basic grasp of, especially now. There's a couple books that will allow for a strong enough rote strategy to allow the disciplined player to get off on the right foot. It's also easier to take baby steps, since you can move up in stakes very gradually, while never really risking a sizable amount. Will these outlines turn you into a world-class player? Not even close. But, they'll lay a foundation to think about the game, and allow you to make a couple bucks in the process.
I know I'm a winning poker player, but I have no idea if my foray into trading will be worthwhile. However, I do think my poker background will make things a bit easier, primarily in the sense that I'm quite used to dealing with (and rebounding from ) losses, and also the day-to-day grind of variance.
Fundamentally, I think trading and poker are very similar: they're both rather singular endeavors (while a lot of people learn/discuss with others, it still comes down to you as an individual) that require a very strong sense of discipline and confidence. But, that sense of confidence has to be tempered, as ego has crushed many a dream. Above all else, they place a very high premium on mental fortitude.
In practice, I think poker is a lot easier to get a basic grasp of, especially now. There's a couple books that will allow for a strong enough rote strategy to allow the disciplined player to get off on the right foot. It's also easier to take baby steps, since you can move up in stakes very gradually, while never really risking a sizable amount. Will these outlines turn you into a world-class player? Not even close. But, they'll lay a foundation to think about the game, and allow you to make a couple bucks in the process.
I know I'm a winning poker player, but I have no idea if my foray into trading will be worthwhile. However, I do think my poker background will make things a bit easier, primarily in the sense that I'm quite used to dealing with (and rebounding from ) losses, and also the day-to-day grind of variance.
if someone is bitten by the "trading bug" and wanted help, I provided that help, at one time. I never claimed outrageous results or promised the sky. I can sleep at night. Note, that I had a change of heart and I have stopped that business, I stand by what I say. Most ET folk are dreamy eyed suckers who either cannot find a job or work just plain stinks for them.
IN poker when you lose, you cannot even write it off. Not to mention the uncertainty if you were colluded, cheated by a crooked dealer or just colluding players.
Both pursuits are for suckers
Go to Andrasnm's profile. Professional card player.(if he didn't change it yet)
What you are going to say? Cards no poker?? Fucking idiot!
Both pursuits are for suckers
Go to Andrasnm's profile. Professional card player.(if he didn't change it yet)
What you are going to say? Cards no poker?? Fucking idiot!
A lot of interesting posts.
I have been playing a trading game called traderwars (traderwars.co.uk) that is a mixture of poker and trading. I used to play some holdem and have been playing this for the past couple of days. I was introduced by a couple of the guys posting here:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...529941&highlight=traderwars.co.uk#post1529941
There is a wiki article on traderwars that says it is a 'hybrid' between texas holdem and trading. I think that this game shows that there are similarities between poker and trading, but that it is also about the type of trading. Taking long term positions on the equity markets is certainly not like playing poker. But, market making and day trading has a number of similarities as shown by traderwars.
I think serious poker is about the timing of your bets and the signals that those bets send out to the other players. It is also about gauging the signals from the timing of the other players' bets. traderwars is the same and shows that poker and trading are quite similar.
With regard to the issues of bots, it did seem that most poker tables seemed to have a lot of good players on small stake tables. I often wondered if it was a bot that I was playing. I am not sure whether there are bots on traderwars. It is only a play for fun game at the moment, although they have said they are releasing a play for money version at some point. The other post said it would be this week. Their site says that everyone gets charged for playing, so I wonder if this might put the bots off?
With regard to the collusion issue, I think that the poker sites should be doing more to prevent this activity. There are lots of things they can watch out for in order to prevent this occurring. It is easy for them to trace MAC and IP address and if they make sure they know who they are dealing with, then suspicious play should be dealt with in order to make it fair for the majority of players. traderwars looks like a game that could suffer from the same problem and it will depend upon what the people who run the site are doing as to whether it will be a problem.
I have been playing a trading game called traderwars (traderwars.co.uk) that is a mixture of poker and trading. I used to play some holdem and have been playing this for the past couple of days. I was introduced by a couple of the guys posting here:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...529941&highlight=traderwars.co.uk#post1529941
There is a wiki article on traderwars that says it is a 'hybrid' between texas holdem and trading. I think that this game shows that there are similarities between poker and trading, but that it is also about the type of trading. Taking long term positions on the equity markets is certainly not like playing poker. But, market making and day trading has a number of similarities as shown by traderwars.
I think serious poker is about the timing of your bets and the signals that those bets send out to the other players. It is also about gauging the signals from the timing of the other players' bets. traderwars is the same and shows that poker and trading are quite similar.
With regard to the issues of bots, it did seem that most poker tables seemed to have a lot of good players on small stake tables. I often wondered if it was a bot that I was playing. I am not sure whether there are bots on traderwars. It is only a play for fun game at the moment, although they have said they are releasing a play for money version at some point. The other post said it would be this week. Their site says that everyone gets charged for playing, so I wonder if this might put the bots off?
With regard to the collusion issue, I think that the poker sites should be doing more to prevent this activity. There are lots of things they can watch out for in order to prevent this occurring. It is easy for them to trace MAC and IP address and if they make sure they know who they are dealing with, then suspicious play should be dealt with in order to make it fair for the majority of players. traderwars looks like a game that could suffer from the same problem and it will depend upon what the people who run the site are doing as to whether it will be a problem.
I wouldnt say which is easier, but which is more enjoyable. Lets face it, trading simply is not as enjoyable as a poker table. Looking at monitors, watching screens, etc. Trading is pretty dry, unexciting, etc.
Playing poker at a table in Vegas is very exciting to me and has this certain feel to it that is hard to describe. Putting myself in front of a bunch of monitors doesnt seem all that fun.
Playing poker at a table in Vegas is very exciting to me and has this certain feel to it that is hard to describe. Putting myself in front of a bunch of monitors doesnt seem all that fun.
I guess I have a romantic view of trading. It bothers me when others compare trading to poker.
The POINT ???
Why do people group trading with poker, when the implied goals of the trading firm and casino are diametrically opposed ?
To a casino a successful professional poker player is a THREAT, to be dealt with 'extreme prejudice' including being banned from establishments. The goal of a casino is to keep the odds in their favor so net-net the gamblers LOSE.
To me, a professional trader is NOT A THREAT. Isn't the goal of a trading firm (idealistically) to have all traders make money ? To increase the odds in the trader's favor so that net-net TRADERS WIN ?
Even if you count the retail trading firms, the ones that traders put up all risk capital, dont they at least want traders to last ? A casino couldn't care less if you drop your 10K on a bet and lose all your risk capital in 40 seconds at a craps table. I really dont think trading firms want their traders to blow out that fast.
Look no further than the FREE DRINKS served at casinos. Why do you think this occurs? Love of gamblers? Or to impair judgment and further sway odds in the house's favor?
Or am I deceived ? Or do trading firms really want traders to FAIL, like casino owners ? Just more slowly, collecting commissions along the way ?
enlighten me ...
The POINT ???
Why do people group trading with poker, when the implied goals of the trading firm and casino are diametrically opposed ?
To a casino a successful professional poker player is a THREAT, to be dealt with 'extreme prejudice' including being banned from establishments. The goal of a casino is to keep the odds in their favor so net-net the gamblers LOSE.
To me, a professional trader is NOT A THREAT. Isn't the goal of a trading firm (idealistically) to have all traders make money ? To increase the odds in the trader's favor so that net-net TRADERS WIN ?
Even if you count the retail trading firms, the ones that traders put up all risk capital, dont they at least want traders to last ? A casino couldn't care less if you drop your 10K on a bet and lose all your risk capital in 40 seconds at a craps table. I really dont think trading firms want their traders to blow out that fast.
Look no further than the FREE DRINKS served at casinos. Why do you think this occurs? Love of gamblers? Or to impair judgment and further sway odds in the house's favor?
Or am I deceived ? Or do trading firms really want traders to FAIL, like casino owners ? Just more slowly, collecting commissions along the way ?
enlighten me ...
A professional poker player is not a threat to a casino. Maybe you're thinking of card counting in blackjack, but the money won in poker comes from the other players. The casino doesn't have any odds, just the rake they charge, so being a professional or amateur is irrelevant to the casino in regards to poker.