Here is a good rule of thumb that I use as guidance to understand what is good advice and bad advice. If a poster have to write a long post like this, then they probably are a 95% loser so take what they say with a grain of salt. A 5% winner don't have the need to write long post like this and don't t care.Yeah, I've thought what is my next step. My strategy trades extremely liquid large cap names unlike the YouTube trading furus trading microcaps and small caps. So, I don't see a capacity issue with my style.
Here's my take on the situation. Hopefully in 1 -2 yrs, my skill level will get to the point where I consistently make an average of $5K/day. That means not every day is $5K but on most days even with losses accounted for average in. I see that happening within 12-24+ months of trading and constantly improving. Very doable.
$5K/day on average works out to be $100K/month or $1.2M a year. Let's round down due to losses to and vacations or days away from trading. So, $1M/yr.
At that point, what kind of backer/hedge fund/prop situation would make sense?
The capital base and/or access to capital would need to generate at least 10x. So $10M a year. Doable.
But at hedge fund you get at most 20% cut or 10%-15% cut as portfolio manager. So, let's say 15% generously. That's a very high cut since the hedge fund themselves only charge the customers 20%. They need to keep some for the partners and management. $10M profits & 15% is only $1.5M/yr in profits which is no better than my situation assuming I get to the point where my skills can net me $1M/yr.
Unless, I manage to scale up to make $100M/yr. Now we are talkin'. 15% cut of $100M is $15M/yr. But I'm not a stage where I definitely know if my strategy is that scalable though I think it's possible with swing trading and automation.
The alternative is a prop shop. Their cut is better at 50%-70%. That's the next logical step I think. If I'm at a prop shop and scale my strategy up and make $10M/yr with 50% cut that's $5M/yr. With 70% cut would be $7M/yr. But I would prefer a higher cut.
Do you guys know any good legitimate prop shop with a high percentage cut, stable, and ample capital? I'll look into that in 1-2 yrs.
But once I get to that level in 2 yrs time, I might NOT be interested working for anyone anymore at that point. I can just be at home and trade and make $1M-$2M/yr. Travel whenever I want. Have lots of family time.
I'm getting close to my daytrader dream I had over a decade ago... This is after thousands and thousands of hours of heartaches, losses, account blowups, profits, swings, ups and downs of all sorts. It's been the longest journey of my life!
Check back in 2 yrs.
$286 left
- Thread starter hurricane_sh
- Start date
dis·ci·pline | \ ˈdi-sə-plən
1a : control gained by enforcing obedience or order
b : orderly or prescribed conduct or pattern of behavior
Have you considered using a trading plan?
In that plan you could prescribe a pattern of behavior that you intend to use to lead you to your promised land.
the probability that it indeed will do so is based on items, several of which are found among other places, right in here at your fingertips in this big ol' thread titled: What would you say belongs in a solid trading plan?-
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...solid-trading-plan.340340/page-4#post-5031706
Once you have a trading plan, no small feat in itself, then you will have something to measure your behavior against, against which you can leverage your discipline in order to accomplish the intent of your plan, which is ...-this is where you start your plan, fill in that blank truthfully, the intent of your plan, which is ... ...
Error log for when you take/ don't take action according to your plan.
what gets measured stands a better chance of control.
Suppose your paycheck was based on the percent of entry and exit triggers correctly taken?
Here is a game that shows you where you stand using a blood simple trading procedure against which you can measure your ability from 1to100%.
-Can I trade 100% Inline With My Plan And Rules On The Next Trade I Take?
how hard can that be? lol. pretty hard sometimes, no? lol
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...ercent-entry-triggers-correctly-taken.343345/
Keep in mind that a percentage of poker players sit down to the table subconsciously inclined to walk away with less than they came with. if you are in that camp, welcome to the markets.
We can help you with that too.
1a : control gained by enforcing obedience or order
b : orderly or prescribed conduct or pattern of behavior
Have you considered using a trading plan?
In that plan you could prescribe a pattern of behavior that you intend to use to lead you to your promised land.
the probability that it indeed will do so is based on items, several of which are found among other places, right in here at your fingertips in this big ol' thread titled: What would you say belongs in a solid trading plan?-
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...solid-trading-plan.340340/page-4#post-5031706
Once you have a trading plan, no small feat in itself, then you will have something to measure your behavior against, against which you can leverage your discipline in order to accomplish the intent of your plan, which is ...-this is where you start your plan, fill in that blank truthfully, the intent of your plan, which is ... ...
Error log for when you take/ don't take action according to your plan.
what gets measured stands a better chance of control.
Suppose your paycheck was based on the percent of entry and exit triggers correctly taken?
Here is a game that shows you where you stand using a blood simple trading procedure against which you can measure your ability from 1to100%.
-Can I trade 100% Inline With My Plan And Rules On The Next Trade I Take?
how hard can that be? lol. pretty hard sometimes, no? lol
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...ercent-entry-triggers-correctly-taken.343345/
Keep in mind that a percentage of poker players sit down to the table subconsciously inclined to walk away with less than they came with. if you are in that camp, welcome to the markets.
We can help you with that too.
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In the thread referenced above, sim trade the 100 entries.
Sim trade.
Stop losing money, stop donating to others.
Sim trade until you can double a 10K account at least once, a couple of times is better. And you know if you are doing it correctly, not moving stops and doubling down, etc.
Sure, there is an adjustment to make when changing to live. Do it in its time.
Sim trade months or a year or two -- whatever it takes. Then you will at least know it can be done.
Most of us in your place were reinforcing bad habits. Until you can figure out what yours are and correct them, the phase of losing money will continue. But don't lose any more money than you have to... IMO
You will be money ahead over time.
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Famous last words moment here. My question is, if you "know how to trade", why are you still only at around $26k with small profits.
If someone says "it comes easily" then I expect there to be a yacht to prove it, otherwise it's just a run.
To OP:
As you would be aware there are lot of losers at ET, and it is the reality as trading is a hard business and only a few can really excel. There are decent losers who will try to learn more and be successful eventually, however there are some toxic losers who turn their failure into certain anger and got mad when they spot success of others and the signature of these losers is to use very harsh word to put down people’s success and be very negative, as they envy others success which makes them feel their inferiority (some of these people have traded more than ten years or much longer than you) and use their criticism at you to reveal their disappointment at themselves in a strange psychological way, but it is very common.
Just don’t get put down by these toxic people, have a clear mind about your own strength and weakness, and improve in a cautious way( like you plan to fund your account with $1000 if needed), you had a good day last Friday , but one day does not built the Rome, trading is a marathon, have good planning, solid strategy and system and work on the psychology and disciple part, and you will feel your progress.
As you would be aware there are lot of losers at ET, and it is the reality as trading is a hard business and only a few can really excel. There are decent losers who will try to learn more and be successful eventually, however there are some toxic losers who turn their failure into certain anger and got mad when they spot success of others and the signature of these losers is to use very harsh word to put down people’s success and be very negative, as they envy others success which makes them feel their inferiority (some of these people have traded more than ten years or much longer than you) and use their criticism at you to reveal their disappointment at themselves in a strange psychological way, but it is very common.
Just don’t get put down by these toxic people, have a clear mind about your own strength and weakness, and improve in a cautious way( like you plan to fund your account with $1000 if needed), you had a good day last Friday , but one day does not built the Rome, trading is a marathon, have good planning, solid strategy and system and work on the psychology and disciple part, and you will feel your progress.
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Why does every post criticizing someone for an obvious mistake have at least one of the karenposters that claim said criticism is just "toxic".
OP has a serious gambling problem. You don't blow up "5 or 6 accounts" of significant size and not have some sort of underlying psychological issue that needs to be addressed. If you see people criticizing his degenerate habit as "toxic negative energy" I'm going to go ahead and say you're the problem. The books call the problem you are an "enabler" and you should stop. OP needs to seek counseling before continuing trading and consider the potential damages blowing up another 5-6 25k accounts will do their life and those around them. This is the real advice OP needs. Not this completely vacuous "pay for my motivational seminar" self-help bullshit that helps no one. Encouraging OP to continue down this path unencumbered ("oh just another $1000 - improve on that first!") is not only dishonest it is destructive to someone with this problem. Would you tell a recovering alcoholic "oh it's just one beer"? Insanity. Absolute insanity coming from you and everyone else in this topic giving him advice to continue feeding his destructive habit.
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Every trader has his own journey and some became successful after a few months, some after a few years and some takes longer. Now the OP realizes his problems but he figures that he has a good skill in recognizing the trading signals as he showed last Friday he caught a stream of profitable trades (25% gain in one day), so he realized he needs to work on his discipline and he found a new tool (MES) so he has a new plan ($1000 vs $26000) that is much conservative to continue to learn and improve his trading, that is some improvement already. People can offer constructive suggestions from different angles, but Nobody has the right to ask him stop trading except himself, for trading is a very personal business.
For example, if he funded another account with $1000, and continues to learn and improve, and even after 5 more times for a total $5000, he may finally succeed, which is a sensible plan. As some person who blew up similar amount (or even more) and after many more years (5-7 more, total 12 years or so) but now he has been doing very well with the micro ES thing for a few months day in day out at ET right now.
By the way, the MES and others (Micro index) is a great tool that may enable some people to fulfill their dream of becoming a consistent profitable trader with a very conservative amount of capital, as some people are demonstrating almost daily in real journals on ET!
The "pay for my motivational seminar" thing is ridiculous!
For example, if he funded another account with $1000, and continues to learn and improve, and even after 5 more times for a total $5000, he may finally succeed, which is a sensible plan. As some person who blew up similar amount (or even more) and after many more years (5-7 more, total 12 years or so) but now he has been doing very well with the micro ES thing for a few months day in day out at ET right now.
By the way, the MES and others (Micro index) is a great tool that may enable some people to fulfill their dream of becoming a consistent profitable trader with a very conservative amount of capital, as some people are demonstrating almost daily in real journals on ET!
The "pay for my motivational seminar" thing is ridiculous!
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Maybe you should try to qualify for some Prop firm? The maximum that you can lose is the cost of selection.
I'm done trading today, made 10 trades, 8 wins, 2 losses.
P&L: +16
Current balance: $289
Edit: it dropped hard after I stopped trading, I couldn't help making another trade, I was lucky to catch the bottom. I broke my rule of not trading after 2PM.
11 trades, 9 wins, 2 losses.
Corrected P&L: +36
Current balance: $310
1. Thought I was on paper, when I realized this was a live trade, I exited immediately.
2~3. Tiny Scalpers (PT: 5 ticks, SL: 10 ticks).
4. This one was actually a Scalper (PT: 10 ticks, SL: 16 ticks), almost hit SL, got out with a profit when I had the chance.
5. Scalper: almost hit PT, should've moved SL to break even. Got out early instead of $20 SL.
6. Tiny Scalper.
7~8. Tiny scalpers
9. Tiny scalper: Perfect chance to go for a big trade, but my confidence was shattered, I can only trade tiny scalper today.
10. Tiny Scalper: another good chance to go for 2~4 points.
Really don't want to lose today, because every time I think I gets it, the second day was a huge loss. I'm glad it's a winning day, but I can do better, the trend was very clear in the morning session. I was afraid of using a bigger SL, always do counter trend scalping.
P&L: +16
Current balance: $289
Edit: it dropped hard after I stopped trading, I couldn't help making another trade, I was lucky to catch the bottom. I broke my rule of not trading after 2PM.
11 trades, 9 wins, 2 losses.
Corrected P&L: +36
Current balance: $310
1. Thought I was on paper, when I realized this was a live trade, I exited immediately.
2~3. Tiny Scalpers (PT: 5 ticks, SL: 10 ticks).
4. This one was actually a Scalper (PT: 10 ticks, SL: 16 ticks), almost hit SL, got out with a profit when I had the chance.
5. Scalper: almost hit PT, should've moved SL to break even. Got out early instead of $20 SL.
6. Tiny Scalper.
7~8. Tiny scalpers
9. Tiny scalper: Perfect chance to go for a big trade, but my confidence was shattered, I can only trade tiny scalper today.
10. Tiny Scalper: another good chance to go for 2~4 points.
Really don't want to lose today, because every time I think I gets it, the second day was a huge loss. I'm glad it's a winning day, but I can do better, the trend was very clear in the morning session. I was afraid of using a bigger SL, always do counter trend scalping.
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