Hey speakingout give your friend this advice. 250K is more than enough to trade with full time. I personally don't advocate your friend basing his decision to trade full time with 250k from advice on ET. Heck I would venture to guess that 99% of the people here don't have anything near in capital what he has now available to him. I will say I know a few on this board who have well above what he has and they employ many different kinds of strategies. I will say that I have been trading 10 years now, not all of that full time but when I went out full time i had about 300K(built up from trading) and after that time I was able to generate another 1+ million dollars gross by being able to take advantage of real time swing trading opportunities. So even though he may or may not be successful daytrading I can understand his reason to go for it full time if just to focus more with his swingtrades. I think thats the real issue, not if he has enough capital because IMO he has plenty. The key issue is will he benefit via greater focus by watching the market full time? If so then he should go for it you only live once. Your friend seems smart enough in his approach so far to as to the long wait and build up of capital so his discipline most likely is not going to be an issue (in regards to you getting reckless and blowing up). Good Luck.
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250K enough to trade with?
- Thread starter Speakingout
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Quote from axehawk:
Maybe with the $250,000 your friend can buy his own computer and some balls to make his own posts.
Like I said if he had started this thread with a post count of "1" he would have gotten a massive backlash response of this is all B.S. screw you newbie instead of real advice. Awehawk on the otherhand there are always as many opinions as there are you know what so you see it the other way. Thanks for your insightful contribution to this thread by the way.
Speaking out I guarantee you that you are a lying ass. There is no way your going to tell me your friend has made 250K in his account after taxes and yet can't make a decision as to whether or not he wants to try it full time. I'm sure that there is no friend and if so he is probably a piker with 5k or less in his account. statistically speaking, the amount of people on ET or anywhere in the total pool of all traders retail or prop that have 250K capital is probably under 1% and they don't need advice they give advice. Something smells fishy here no way this guy or whoever the hell he is has 250K its total b.s. thats just way too much money bro. Maybe you could have made it more realistic if you had said something like 50K then I would have maybe believed you!
Quote from trade4dollars:
Speaking out I guarantee you that you are a lying ass. There is no way your going to tell me your friend has made 250K in his account after taxes and yet can't make a decision as to whether or not he wants to try it full time. I'm sure that there is no friend and if so he is probably a piker with 5k or less in his account. statistically speaking, the amount of people on ET or anywhere in the total pool of all traders retail or prop that have 250K capital is probably under 1% and they don't need advice they give advice. Something smells fishy here no way this guy or whoever the hell he is has 250K its total b.s. thats just way too much money bro. Maybe you could have made it more realistic if you had said something like 50K then I would have maybe believed you!
True,
15k into 250k in 8 years and this "friend" needs to ask someone else to make a post on ET, a site where most posters do not even trade.
This thread is absurd.
Please don't let this thread detiorate into name calling etc. My friend is the real deal he has made what I have stated. Just assume its real and those who have advice to give please continue on, so far the advice has been very helpful thanks. By the way trade4dollars I see that its your first post on ET and you come to this thread to slam me and my friend. I am sure it is you who does not have 250K in your account my friend is the real deal and 250K may seem like alot but he is just that good!
Quote from Speakingout:
Hi I have a friend who wanted me to ask this advice from the board. My friend works for a company in NYC earning a salary of 75K per year. He has traded on the side for over 8 years now with a slow mo place like Waterhouse and Datek(presently) from the start of that time. He has never used Direct Access platforms but he understands them as I have shown him the "ropes" so to speak on the ins and outs of such a platform. He stared with 15k 8 years ago and he now has the trading account at 250k after tax, also he has never added to the account by the way its all trading profits after tax for 8 years running. My friend has been swingtrading positions for a few days at a time using TA and market momentum/psychology. Once in a while he will knock a trade out in 1 day but according to him thats when he gets a large gain in one day.
My friend is 32 years old and married with no kids. He has a house with a small mortgage etc but with what he makes currently he has no trouble meeting his bills, he has always been prudent with his spending that way. My friend's goal since he began trading on the side was to go out on his own full time. He has been doing this as I said for 8 years now and has great experience with TA, market psychology etc etc. He has only been using Waterhouse and Datek as I have said because he swingtrades but he understand the Direct Access Platform because I have shown him so much of it over the years. His goal is to go out on his own and at leat begin with matching his salary that he is giving up. He waited until his account was larger so he could begin to employ a dual strategy of swingtrading and daytrading via a direct access account. Folks he has the stuff, this I know firsthand, he has the right mental game for it and the right experience.(I tell him this all the time) His wife is 100% behind him in his decision. I tell him all the time he is wasting his talent staying at his job and that he should do what his dream has been for the last 8 years and trade full time. I tell him you proved you can make the money because your entire stake is from your trading over the last 8 years.
The question is this...and the reason after all that background that I am asking it is because he didn't want to put up a first post and have it start out with this kind of inquiry so I said I would ask on his behalf. Anyhow the question is as follows: my friend wants to know if 250K is enough for him to start trading with fulltime? Taking into account his monthly bills are somewhere around 4200 per month net in total. He does have another 25k saved up as side money by the way not to be used for trading but for bills if he does go full time. However my friend wishes me to ask of your folks here on ET what your opinions are on having 250K and whether or not thats enough to employ both swing trading strategies and day trading strategies while working at home full time not at a prop shop by the way. He does not want to use others leverage only what he has so prop at home or remote is not for sale here folks. His goal like I said first year is to get comfortable with trading at home full time and to match his salary of 75 with gross trading profits. Folks he will be reading the replies please give him some honest answers he can handle it. Thanks all.
Your "friend" should read a book on odds and realize that he won't be able to keep up this pace. Trading full-time versus part-time means nothing. Its all about making money. And since your "friend" is on pace to become richer than the Sultan of Brunei, why would he want to go trade at a prop firm?? Actually when you think about it, its quite good comedy.
Almost as good as a daytrading firm suggesting to use money set aside for education and dropping out so you can trade whats left for a REAL education. Not implying that anyone would say such a thing.. Just saying..
It is enough to trade with.
However, the size of the account is not the problem. The problem is going from earning a steady income and trading on the side (such that the trading "doesn't matter" as much), to having to earn his daily bread by trading. Some people find that psychologically difficult to deal with. I once backed a friend to trade part time and he did ok, but when he went full time he got too stressed by the pressure to earn and couldn't hack it.
Another problem is that he may trade more to fill up the time, and therefore reduce his edge by overtrading.
Because of these risks, I would recommend he only do it with say $50k, and keep the other $200k aside. Set a stop-loss at say $25k, and trade for 3-6 months full-ime. If he loses $25k, he decides to go back to work. If he is profitable at similar rates to before, he can then move up to the full account and trade full time.
This should help reduce the potential for the two risks mentioned above to occur.
Finally, I would advise your friend to go for it. If anything he has waited a bit too long already.
However, the size of the account is not the problem. The problem is going from earning a steady income and trading on the side (such that the trading "doesn't matter" as much), to having to earn his daily bread by trading. Some people find that psychologically difficult to deal with. I once backed a friend to trade part time and he did ok, but when he went full time he got too stressed by the pressure to earn and couldn't hack it.
Another problem is that he may trade more to fill up the time, and therefore reduce his edge by overtrading.
Because of these risks, I would recommend he only do it with say $50k, and keep the other $200k aside. Set a stop-loss at say $25k, and trade for 3-6 months full-ime. If he loses $25k, he decides to go back to work. If he is profitable at similar rates to before, he can then move up to the full account and trade full time.
This should help reduce the potential for the two risks mentioned above to occur.
Finally, I would advise your friend to go for it. If anything he has waited a bit too long already.
Quote from sammybea:
Your "friend" should read a book on odds and realize that he won't be able to keep up this pace. Trading full-time versus part-time means nothing. Its all about making money. And since your "friend" is on pace to become richer than the Sultan of Brunei, why would he want to go trade at a prop firm?? Actually when you think about it, its quite good comedy.
Almost as good as a daytrading firm suggesting to use money set aside for education and dropping out so you can trade whats left for a REAL education. Not implying that anyone would say such a thing.. Just saying..
He knows that he is not going to compound the money at the same rate as it keeps getting higher. That was stated already. Secondly, I told in the original post that the is not considering prop in house or remote. Both your points addresses issues that were clearly pointed out in this thread as not the case.
Quote from Cutten:
It is enough to trade with.
However, the size of the account is not the problem. The problem is going from earning a steady income and trading on the side (such that the trading "doesn't matter" as much), to having to earn his daily bread by trading. Some people find that psychologically difficult to deal with. I once backed a friend to trade part time and he did ok, but when he went full time he got too stressed by the pressure to earn and couldn't hack it.
Another problem is that he may trade more to fill up the time, and therefore reduce his edge by overtrading.
Because of these risks, I would recommend he only do it with say $50k, and keep the other $200k aside. Set a stop-loss at say $25k, and trade for 3-6 months full-ime. If he loses $25k, he decides to go back to work. If he is profitable at similar rates to before, he can then move up to the full account and trade full time.
This should help reduce the potential for the two risks mentioned above to occur.
Finally, I would advise your friend to go for it. If anything he has waited a bit too long already.
Great advice, I would agree that since he wants to start full time by making his salary for the year to transition from part time to full time then yes this also sounds like a great move with the 25k cap on drawdowns. Secondly, I agree entirely that my friend has waited far two long to go fulltime and the clock is ticking he is not getting any younger. Good advice thanks.
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