Is there any verified track record for him that shows he is a profitable trader ?
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25,000 Roundtrips a day?!
- Thread starter pinetboltz
- Start date
Is there any verified track record for him that shows he is a profitable trader ?
Is there any verified track record for him that shows he is a profitable trader ?
Yes. His company returns, his brokerage statements and dozens of people that have worked alongside him. If you're really that interested email his previous employers.
He traded at Futex which was a large prop group in the UK.
He isn't some trading educator that claims to trade. He sat on a trading floor with 50 other guys. I've personally seen his risk screen with several thousand S&P contracts on
This is Nav I'm talking about by the way. No idea if Trader Dante makes money
I meant verified public records , so until then it is just hearsay .
Important notes here :
Having 10 million in an account doesn't meany anything maybe he had 20 million and lost half .
Trading at a prop firm also doesn't mean much , it been proved with empirical evidence that most prop traders lose money , search ET for these statements .
Trading thousands of contracts in the ES doesnt mean much , looks like a reckless punter to me , how he trades thousands of contracts with just a mere 10 million in his account ? Not to mention that he averages down as stated above !
Important notes here :
Having 10 million in an account doesn't meany anything maybe he had 20 million and lost half .
Trading at a prop firm also doesn't mean much , it been proved with empirical evidence that most prop traders lose money , search ET for these statements .
Trading thousands of contracts in the ES doesnt mean much , looks like a reckless punter to me , how he trades thousands of contracts with just a mere 10 million in his account ? Not to mention that he averages down as stated above !
I meant verified public records , so until then it is just hearsay .
Important notes here :
Having 10 million in an account doesn't meany anything maybe he had 20 million and lost half .
Trading at a prop firm also doesn't mean much , it been proved with empirical evidence that most prop traders lose money , search ET for these statements .
Trading thousands of contracts in the ES doesnt mean much , looks like a reckless punter to me , how he trades thousands of contracts with just a mere 10 million in his account ? Not to mention that he averages down as stated above !
Ok. Well I'm telling you as someone that works in the industry and has worked with him that he did make that money trading. But up to you what you want to believe.
Why would he put his trading records in the public domain. Do you put your income on the Internet.
I've never seen Paul Tudor Jones verified trading records but pretty sure he's made a few dollars trading.
Also read the Bloomberg articles written about him. US Government agencies are using the fact he made that much money trading in their legal case against him.
A martingale trader may make ton of money but that doesn't make him a good trader , the devil is in the details , consistency matters . I dont care if someone made a million over the summer just because he was lucky and took a lot of risk . When the sp500 at all time highs anyone would have made money . Lets see how the trial goes .
A martingale trader may make ton of money but that doesn't make him a good trader , the devil is in the details , consistency matters . I dont care if someone made a million over the summer just because he was lucky and took a lot of risk . When the sp500 at all time highs anyone would have made money . Lets see how the trial goes .
Well this was over about 8 years starting with an account of zero (he was backed by Futex) and then built it up with 1 lots slowly going up the size increases scalping for small intraday winners but yeah
The only things that stand out to me here are these figures...
25,000 RT per day at ~$5 per RT =$125,000 in costs. (Volume discounts not applied) Ouch.
1,500 contracts on ES at ~4.6K per ct in initial margin = ~$7 million just to satisfy margin requirements. And if your 1,500 contract ES position is down by, say, 100 ticks at market close/settlement price?
Hmm. 100t*$12.5*1,500 cts = another $1.8 million. So you'd need 9 million just to survive that scenario on paper. And then what about SPAN?
Fucking retarded. Just trade one stupid contract, get a grand a day, be happy. Because if you have 9 million to risk, and you are risking it on trading ES to the max limit of both yours and the CME's ability? Then give it to the straights out here in the real world.
You are way off the mark. Round trips will be sub 25c all in for this amount of volume on ES. A prop firm that knows you (at least the ones in London I know of) will give you 1000 lot limit if you put up $1m as first loss, probably even 2000. They will have a risk guy who will bang you out if you break agreed parameters. They firm will bank the desk fee, software commission and if they only bank 5c per round trip they will bank $1250 every time the trade completes 2500 round trips.
Why the obsession with 25000 a day? The highest volume futures traders reside in spreads. More specifically rate spreads and before zirp movement and volumes were much higher. Back in the day banging 1000 clips in 2s5s10s on Eurex or cme was easily possible, depending on the ratios that was 8000 RTs per clip.
The people who average successfully are very disciplined, they add in clips at favourable prices when they know several 'roadblocks' will likely give some movement in their direction. Most can't do it and blow up just the same as any strategy, humans will be humans. You need to be well capitalised and have superb money management.
Edit - retail needs to understand that these guys only need some movement in their direction not a movement to target to bank. That skews the RR and trade expectation.
The people who average successfully are very disciplined, they add in clips at favourable prices when they know several 'roadblocks' will likely give some movement in their direction. Most can't do it and blow up just the same as any strategy, humans will be humans. You need to be well capitalised and have superb money management.
Edit - retail needs to understand that these guys only need some movement in their direction not a movement to target to bank. That skews the RR and trade expectation.
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Well this was over about 8 years starting with an account of zero (he was backed by Futex) and then built it up with 1 lots slowly going up the size increases scalping for small intraday winners but yeah
Legally or illegally ?
Legally or illegally ?
Legally. You can't spoof the S&P market with 1 lots.
Even if he did do it a bit in the final year you don't get to clipping 2000 lot orders without doing phenomenally well building up your account