231 Butterflies

Destriero,
Thank you for all the good intentions and effort, but for the life of me I can’t even figure out the call fly. Can’t tweak it to have delta neutral at 10 points above body strike, not even at current SPX spot.

Adding to the puzzle, I don’t know how these two phrases can describe the same situation:

... you’re targeting neutrality which is 10 SPX above the body strike.

You buy a bearish 132C fly neutral to 10 points under the body ...
 
This was all the edge I ever needed to make money, analyze the chart, strikes and expiration to find the position that best suited my view and lock it in. Best thing about the analyzer is I can tweak the strikes until I feel comfortable with it while visualizing the greeks a bit.

Corto said:
Got nowhere. Obviously more than I can chew. I went to google to find out about risk reversal, stickiness, etc. Funny that some links pointed to this forum.

I had no clue stickiness is a valid notion, I thought it’s a term you coined.

Anyway, I learned few things, but I’m still far from getting what you’re saying.

What do you mean by targeting neutrality which is 10 SPX above the body strike?

Structuring the fly so that the position would be delta-neutral 10 points above the body strike on the bearish 132C fly

What do you call neutral strike? Is this related to the above?

The closest strike to delta-neutrality on the spread

Then you said: The targeted body strike is trading 13.7%. You’re expecting the vol at the neutral strike to be 12.7% and perhaps 12.3% on the body.

I assume targeted body strike means the strike where you’ll have 3 shorts at and you see its vol = 13.7% - correct?

No, the strike = your prediction (target) on SPX spot.

Then do I expect that to drop to 12.3%? Please explain.

Prevailing (current) ATM vol and the "stickiness" or contamination of the target strike trading to the prevailing ATM vol as spot approaches that strike; absent a rise in strip volatility

Bearish 132C fly neutral to 10 points under the body? A picture is worth a thousand words – I know I’m asking too much.

Thank you both for taking the time to post your comments. Very helpful. :thumbsup:
 
Thank you both for taking the time to post your comments. Very helpful. :thumbsup:

Ironchef, no need to include me in the list. I don't deserve it. I kept twisting my mind trying to figure out what Destriero was saying, but no way to solve it and gave up.
 
@destriero
Just wondering if you trade flies regularly [and profitably]? I tried trading them for a couple months using IB, but I never got filled on their spread trader. Maybe I was not being forgiving enough on my bids and asks.
 
When I think of a 1-3-2 fly, to me it seems to be either of:
  • regular 1-2-1 fly minus a vertical spread
  • difference of two 1:2 verticals
All of the above are popular combinations. Do you like to peel off parts of 1-3-2 as time progresses?
 
@destriero
Just wondering if you trade flies regularly [and profitably]? I tried trading them for a couple months using IB, but I never got filled on their spread trader. Maybe I was not being forgiving enough on my bids and asks.

Yeah, it's 30-40% of my trading and I am up on the year. You're not going to be filled at mid. It's hard to address fills without specifics.
 
When I think of a 1-3-2 fly, to me it seems to be either of:
  • regular 1-2-1 fly minus a vertical spread
  • difference of two 1:2 verticals
All of the above are popular combinations. Do you like to peel off parts of 1-3-2 as time progresses?


A 132 call fly is a synthetic bull put vertical and a two lot bear put vertical, ascending strikes.
 
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